Everything Marc Gasol

[KeonClark]

Nobodies mentioning the fact 6'7 delon Wright would have been here as well, presumably playing better than what we got from fred. Surely that helps move the scales a bit

[slaw]

Yeah, but your scenario you posted there has no basis in fact, you see. That's the problem. I can make up stuff that didn't happen, too. And yes, the defence would probably have been a good bit worse with JV in Gasol's place, but there are two ends to the court.

There are all sorts of great reasons why Gasol could be way better for the Raptors in this playoff run overall. The Philadelphia matchup is decidedly not one of them. The Raptors may well not have gotten where they want to get to with JV. They may also not with Gasol, though I think Gasol improves their chances of getting there if everything is clicking. But Philadelphia was never going to be the team to knock off the Raps, and it shouldn't have been as close as it was, and wouldn't have been but for the trade. Still, those shots start going down and the potential of the deal will be realized. It's only when the shooters struggle that the production and rebounding downgrade the trade represented causes issues - which is exactly how the 76ers series went so long.

My scenario is a hypothetical. Your statements about the series being 'easier' with JV are suppositions based on regular season games the Raps-Sixers played and your supposition JV would have been a rebounding and scoring machine(?) and not given it all back on defense(?). I would argue my hypothetical had a much better chance of occurring than your conclusion about JV's impact/influence vs. Gasol's.

[GOLDBLUM]

Trick is making that lineup work offensively. Started to cave late in game 7 as the 76ers realized they could double off Ibaka with impunity. Had to start including Ibaka in the primary action to prevent that, and that's never good for the offence. Can't just have Kawhi shooting over double teams all game. And definitely can't be settling for Ibaka midrange jumpers or threes or post ups, which the Bucks will gladly goad us into putting a small on Ibaka.

Hopefully Ibaka still has the band-aid. Band-aid Ibaka can't miss.

[DanH]

Yeah, it still looks like we only get fleeting glimpses of how good this team can be on the offensive end. Defense is looking phenomenal, though. And Nurse has finally realized that "size matters". That super-sized lineup of: Kawhi/Siakam/Ibaka/Gasol could be the switchable Giannis stopper we need to get us over the hump.

Trick is making that lineup work offensively. Started to cave late in game 7 as the 76ers realized they could double off Ibaka with impunity. Had to start including Ibaka in the primary action to prevent that, and that's never good for the offence. Can't just have Kawhi shooting over double teams all game. And definitely can't be settling for Ibaka midrange jumpers or threes or post ups, which the Bucks will gladly goad us into putting a small on Ibaka.

[golden]

The Raptors making gains from that JV-Gasol trade will start to become clear against teams like the Bucks, the sort of team JV struggled against. Not against Philly.

I expect the Raptors would have won the 76ers series more easily with JV. They dominated the 76ers with JV this season, and scoring and rebounding were their biggest issues. But the trade was not made to get to the ECF, it was made to win a championship. So as long as the Raps keep moving, the judgment on the deal happens when the season is up. Still a lot of upside.

Yeah, it still looks like we only get fleeting glimpses of how good this team can be on the offensive end. Defense is looking phenomenal, though. And Nurse has finally realized that "size matters". That super-sized lineup of: Kawhi/Siakam/Ibaka/Gasol could be the switchable Giannis stopper we need to get us over the hump.

[DanH]

Maybe, until the Sixers go Butler-Embiid pick and roll 10 times in a row and the Raps can't corral it and recover cause JV can't do that and Butler barrels into him 3 times and sends him to the bench with foul trouble and the Raps have Serge Ibaka guarding Embiid for 30 minutes....

The criticism of Gasol is more properly that he simply isn't doing enough offensively but his defensive contributions have been enormous. All that perimeter ball pressure and the way they've corralled pick and rolls has been because of Gasol's ability to clog the lane, bump cutters, prevent post position, get out and re-direct ball handlers (and then recover), etc. Not to mention that Gasol is a way more adaptable and flexible player than JV - you can make way more adjustments on the fly with Marc than you can with Jonas.

I like Valanciunas but Raps weren't getting where they need to go with him.

Yeah, but your scenario you posted there has no basis in fact, you see. That's the problem. I can make up stuff that didn't happen, too. And yes, the defence would probably have been a good bit worse with JV in Gasol's place, but there are two ends to the court.

There are all sorts of great reasons why Gasol could be way better for the Raptors in this playoff run overall. The Philadelphia matchup is decidedly not one of them. The Raptors may well not have gotten where they want to get to with JV. They may also not with Gasol, though I think Gasol improves their chances of getting there if everything is clicking. But Philadelphia was never going to be the team to knock off the Raps, and it shouldn't have been as close as it was, and wouldn't have been but for the trade. Still, those shots start going down and the potential of the deal will be realized. It's only when the shooters struggle that the production and rebounding downgrade the trade represented causes issues - which is exactly how the 76ers series went so long.

[slaw]

I expect the Raptors would have won the 76ers series more easily with JV. They dominated the 76ers with JV this season, and scoring and rebounding were their biggest issues. But the trade was not made to get to the ECF, it was made to win a championship. So as long as the Raps keep moving, the judgment on the deal happens when the season is up. Still a lot of upside.

Maybe, until the Sixers go Butler-Embiid pick and roll 10 times in a row and the Raps can't corral it and recover cause JV can't do that and Butler barrels into him 3 times and sends him to the bench with foul trouble and the Raps have Serge Ibaka guarding Embiid for 30 minutes....

The criticism of Gasol is more properly that he simply isn't doing enough offensively but his defensive contributions have been enormous. All that perimeter ball pressure and the way they've corralled pick and rolls has been because of Gasol's ability to clog the lane, bump cutters, prevent post position, get out and re-direct ball handlers (and then recover), etc. Not to mention that Gasol is a way more adaptable and flexible player than JV - you can make way more adjustments on the fly with Marc than you can with Jonas.

I like Valanciunas but Raps weren't getting where they need to go with him.

[DanH]

The Raptors making gains from that JV-Gasol trade will start to become clear against teams like the Bucks, the sort of team JV struggled against. Not against Philly.

I expect the Raptors would have won the 76ers series more easily with JV. They dominated the 76ers with JV this season, and scoring and rebounding were their biggest issues. But the trade was not made to get to the ECF, it was made to win a championship. So as long as the Raps keep moving, the judgment on the deal happens when the season is up. Still a lot of upside.

[MixxAOR]

You can argue there was an improvement with Gasol but not on a level that justifies the trade. Improvement when it matters wasn't really there.

[spicy_d]

I disagree. We were starving for points and rebounds, and well he did an amazing job on Embiid, we also win a couple games we lost if somebody other than Kawhi could score the damn ball. Jv is still a better scorer than siakam at this stage imo and a playoff warrior.

then, not only that but you have prime jv for 5 more years if Kawhi stays whereas gasol is on his last legs

edit: then, not only THAT, but that series was made for delon Wright.

ya it's tough to say ..probably we win the series with JV but impossible to say for sure ...also JV got injured at the end of the season but he was in a different place

what can be said is that the trade has worked out so far ...

if we win the champsion it was worth it ..if not...then of course not ...it wasnt long term trade at all and were gonna miss having a reliable big man unless we somehow get AD

I also think ujiri wanted to get rid of as many of the key players involved in our postseason failures (DeRozan ...JV . .and tried getting rid of Lowry )

[KeonClark]

Gasol is our giant squishy rock out there. We don't win that last series without him in my opinion. And I love JV. But ya ... I do that trade 100 times out of 100.

I disagree. We were starving for points and rebounds, and well he did an amazing job on Embiid, we also win a couple games we lost if somebody other than Kawhi could score the damn ball. Jv is still a better scorer than siakam at this stage imo and a playoff warrior.

then, not only that but you have prime jv for 5 more years if Kawhi stays whereas gasol is on his last legs

edit: then, not only THAT, but that series was made for delon Wright.

[The Great One]

Gasol is our giant squishy rock out there. We don't win that last series without him in my opinion. And I love JV. But ya ... I do that trade 100 times out of 100.

He was great defensively.

[Joey]

Gasol is our giant squishy rock out there. We don't win that last series without him in my opinion. And I love JV. But ya ... I do that trade 100 times out of 100.

[DogeLover1234]

I dunno im still 50/50. Do you think we beat the 6ers with JV? Jonas had some really good offensive games s sixers but he wasn't that great of a embiid defender. I think maybe we still win with JV but its tough to say.

Yeah Marc is the defensive anchor out there. I think the issue offensively is figuring out how everyone fits together, which I thought was coming together after the Magic series, but apparently needed a bit more time. It would look a lot better if the team would hit shots, spacing really wasn't great for Gasol's game. Few opportunities to find cutters, post up, etc.

[bertarapsfan]

I think we lost the JV trade but if we beat the bucks no one will care

I dunno im still 50/50. Do you think we beat the 6ers with JV? Jonas had some really good offensive games s sixers but he wasn't that great of a embiid defender. I think maybe we still win with JV but its tough to say.