The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

[mcHAPPY]

Does anyone know how many players (of 430) are below the 5 mill. line. I would think that this group would be more prone to vote yes for many more reasons.

In the NBA, using USA Today salary figures for the 2009-10 season, the estimated median salary was about $2.33 million. That's still about 46 times what the median U.S. household earns, but it is less than half what the max-salary-bloated "average" is.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/feature...ary/index.html

So 215 make $2.33M or less.

Keep in mind a number of those players are on rookie deals.

I don't know how to figure out less than $5M without going through each team and that sounds painful.

[Bendit]

Does anyone know how many players (of 430) are below the 5 mill. line. I would think that this group would be more prone to vote yes for many more reasons.

[mcHAPPY]

Lots of conflicting reports from 'sources'

powellshaun Shaun Powell
Source: "This the best deal the owners will extend, everyone understands that."

powellshaun Shaun Powell
Source added that the rank-and-file want to play, uninterested in decertifying or additional negotiations.

powellshaun Shaun Powell
Source told me if full membership votes on the owner's deal, NBA would open for business by Wednesday.

powellshaun Shaun Powell
"The players want to play, and they'll take the deal," he said. We'll see.

powellshaun Shaun Powell
Just finished speaking with a source who said he'd be "shocked" if the players reject the latest proposal.

Who to believe?

[mcHAPPY]

David Falk says time for players to vote

Agents, even the more moderate ones, expect the players to reject the N.B.A.’s offer Monday, without putting it to a membership vote. Few think that it would get approval from a majority of the 430 or so players. But given the circumstances, at least one influential agent said that a vote was now essential.

“I think it would be a complete abdication of responsibility as agents for anyone to suggest that the players as a group shouldn’t vote on whatever the final proposal is,” said David Falk, a former agent for Michael Jordan and Patrick Ewing.

Falk has nine clients, including Toney Douglas, the Knicks’ player representative.

Source: NYTimes

[mcHAPPY]

Are you saying changing the system to be more equitable is a valid proposition only if the current system is unfavorable to the Raptors in the short term?

I'd love the Raptors to be competitive sooner than rather but I'd rather see the at-large minimum draft age issue be resolved.

I'm not sure what you are asking.

I was saying secondary system issues (draft for example) should go in the players favour as the owners destroyed them on everything else as it would also help the owners cause if the players ever decertify (they could say, "Look we gave them all these things they wanted.").

I would like to see the draft age raised to 20 but, as a Raptors fan, it would really suck for 2012 with such a strong draft class and a high pick for the Raptors all but a certainty. Hopefully any CBA draft changes start in 2013 - again selfish Raptor fan reasons.

[Bendit]

Are you saying changing the system to be more equitable is a valid proposition only if the current system is unfavorable to the Raptors in the short term?

I'd love the Raptors to be competitive sooner than rather but I'd rather see the at-large minimum draft age issue be resolved.

I am hardpressed on why the minimum age issue is such a big deal for the PA. Allowing for an xtra year at school gives existing players more slots in the league and no doubt a good thing for everyone whether basketball related or not.

[Hugmenot]

Maybe the league can throw the players a bone and be much more giving on the 30-40 secondary issues. It would help their cause in repairing damaged player/league relations. It would also help their cause should the players ever decertify. Most importantly, it would help my cause as a Raptors fan with the 2012 draft

Are you saying changing the system to be more equitable is a valid proposition only if the current system is unfavorable to the Raptors in the short term?

I'd love the Raptors to be competitive sooner than rather but I'd rather see the at-large minimum draft age issue be resolved.

[mcHAPPY]

My predictions:

1) This offer, as currently is, will be rejected.

2) There will be one more negotiating session, Monday night, where the players will get one of the two sticking points they have left in their favour (double tax or full MLE permitted to take a team in to the tax - I would say the latter).

3) There will be a 70 game season starting on December 17th.


Via HoopsHype.com:

Marc Stein: What I know for sure: David Stern didn't arbitrarily arrive at 72-game offer. To have a season, I'm told, Stern insists on at least 70 games. League VERY unhappy w/50-game sked in '99. Sources say Stern has conveyed to union deal must come soon so 2011-12 game count can start w/a 7 Twitter

[mcHAPPY]

Instead of portraying this as another owner-driven proposal, with an ultimatum to accept it or get slapped with a far worse one, it should've been described as the product of both sides' work and the best both sides could do. Players are tired of hearing Stern deliver ultimatums. They're tired of being backed into a corner, tired of having Stern say duplicitously that he won't negotiate in the media -- except for all the times he's negotiated in the media.

If anybody knows that it's cool to be good at what you do, but that flaunting it just makes you come across as an arrogant show-off, it's professional athletes in general and basketball players in particular.

So one way to avoid half the players in the league immediately turning on this proposal without even knowing what was in it would've been to stop showing everyone what a great negotiator and famous bully you are. A little more humility and a lot less gun-to-the-head, gotcha-moment cornering of the very people who make the money for these owners would've gone a long way.

If this is, indeed, the best the league and the union can do, it should've been presented in a way that didn't turn the players against it from the jump.

And yet there was Stern again Friday night, in a nationally televised interview with broadcast partner ESPN -- complicit in forcing this deal on the players whether it knows it or not -- pinning the blame for a lost season on the players if they don't accept his owners' offer.

"It's all in the hands of the players," Stern said.

If Stern delivered an offer the players cannot accept, in an offensive manner that turned them against it before they even read it, then that part is on the commissioner and his hard-line owners -- some of whom are just hoping this thing blows up so they can see their 47-percent proposal on the scroll of the league's broadcast partner. If hard-line agents are mobilizing to torpedo this deal, whatever it is, without seriously walking through the alternatives, then shame on them, too.

Don't forget who won this negotiation in a landslide this week, but weren't happy until they got a monsoon and hurricane to go with it. There's such a thing as being careful what you wish for because you might just get it.

Source: Ken Berger, CBSSports.com

[mcHAPPY]

Less support for new offer?

The owners' lack of significant movement on key system issues in their revised proposal, plus new, still-to-be-negotiated requests viewed by the players and agents as draconian, make the chances of players voting for the proposal -- or player reps even recommending it for a vote -- extremely unlikely, sources said.

The new proposal, one of the agents said, is "probably as bad, if not worse than the last proposal."

Union executives are bringing the 30 team player reps to New York Monday or Tuesday to evaluate the latest proposal from the league, delivered Thursday night once again with the threat that if the players rejected it, they would be faced with a worse offer. Commissioner David Stern said the latest proposal, which contains a 50-50 split of revenues, would be replaced by the so-called "reset" proposal in which players would receive 47 percent of revenues and be constrained by a flex cap with a hard team payroll ceiling and a rollback of existing contracts.

In the revised proposal, the owners made the following moves toward the players' position:

* Increase the mid-level exception for luxury tax-paying teams to three-year deals starting at $3 million, available every year. The previous proposal called for mid-level deals for tax teams to be for two years starting at $2.5 million and available every other year.

* Allow tax-payers to execute sign-and-trade transactions for the first two years of the agreement. Such trades would be banned for tax teams after that. They were completely banned for tax-payers in the prior proposal.

* Create a new, $2.5 million exception that can be used by teams that are under the cap. It would allow teams that previously only had cap space to sign a minimum salary player to offer more.

* Increase the team payroll floor (i.e. minimum team salary) to 90 percent of the cap in the third year of the deal and 85 percent in the first two years. It was 85 percent across the entire agreement in the previous proposal, and 75 percent in the prior CBA.

* Increase annual raises for Bird free agents to 6.5 percent, up from 5.5 percent in the prior proposal. Non-Bird players' annual raises remain capped at 3.5 percent, as in the previous proposal. In the prior CBA, Bird raises were capped at 10.5 percent and non-Bird at 8 percent.

* Increase qualifying offers to restricted free agents.

* Allow player options in contracts for players making less than the average league salary. In the previous proposal, player options were banned. There were no restrictions on player options in the previous CBA.

* Accept the union's proposal that each side be able to opt out of the 10-year CBA after the sixth year.

But union officials and agents were disappointed that the league did not address the so-called tax cliff, by which teams are double-penalized for barely wading above the tax line, and they disagree with the league's position that mid-level restrictions would be in place if the signing pushed the team's payroll above the tax. The players want teams to be able to use the exception as long as they are under the tax line before the signing occurs.

"We'll try in court, because it can't get worse than this," one of the formerly moderate agents said. "... The owners are selling players short on their intelligence, and they're definitely selling their representatives short."

Source: Ken Berger, CBSSports.com


It really appears there are only two issues here:

1) double taxing,
2) the use of full MLE as long as team is below the tax line after its use.


I think it is time for the league to throw the players a bone.

*EDIT*

Actually maybe no bone on #2. This rule would essentially eliminate the 'super teams' from using the full MLE. Clearly this is a, "Go f*ck yourself Miami." (and possibly NYK) move by the owners.

[mcHAPPY]

Stern addresses decertification

For months, player agents have been pushing for the decertification of the union, a cry that drew more support following Thursday's negotiating session, when it became clear that the NBA's current offer was not substantially better than its previous one, which was rejected by an NBPA group meeting on Tuesday. Stern said the threat of decertification is a strategic ploy that would jeopardize the 2011-2012 season.

"[it's a move] actually calculated to, one, [serve] as a tactic to improve their bargaining position and, two, as making it even more likely that there won't be a season," Stern said.

If the union did decertify, Stern predicted the move would backfire.

"If the union is not in existence, then neither are 4 billion dollars worth of guaranteed contracts that are entered into under condition that there's a union, Stern said. "So if the agents insist on playing with fire, my guess is that they would get themselves burned."

Asked if the NBA would employ "scab" players if the NBPA decertificed, Stern said simply: "I don't want to go there now."

Source: CBSSports.com - Ben Golliver

[mcHAPPY]

2 more weeks cancelled - December 1-14

Crafty NBA commissioner David Stern cancelled the first two weeks of the league’s December schedule Thursday night without the pomp and circumstance of his past cancellations. There was no formal press release or direct mention of it. It wasn’t until last night that games from Dec. 1-14 were finally deleted from the Knicks’ website.

Stern said if the owners’ revised proposal is accepted by the players’ representatives Monday, the clubs will begin the season Dec. 15.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knick...#ixzz1dVLCo7ub

[mcHAPPY]

More changes coming out in the labour deal:

1) in the past each trade could have $3M cash included PER TRADE. New deal, $3M cash included in all deals PER SEASON.

2) teams with restricted free agents signing an offer sheet from another team had 7 DAYS to match previously. New deal, 3 DAYS to match.


Via Twitter:

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
New wrinkle No. 2: Teams would only have 3 days to match offer sheets to restricted FAs like Marc Gasol/Arron Afflalo. Previously had 7 days


ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Just heard two more wrinkles in NBA's offer. No. 1: Teams can only add total of $3 mil per SEASON in trades. Previous max: $3M per DEAL

I'm indifferent on #1 (obviously a benefit to cheap or cash strapped teams) and #2 is awesome - nothing worse than waiting until the last minute for a team to make a decision with salary cap space tied up.

[mcHAPPY]

http://twitter.com/#!/NBA_Labor

For NBA propaganda and spin regarding CBA, check out their Twitter account. Given the amount at stake regarding the negotiations, I don't think they are putting false facts out there.

For all the players saying it is a bad deal, I would love to hear their reasons why.

To me it seems obvious they don't like having the choice of location versus money - they want it all.

The only thing I agree with the players on at this point is the larger MLE for non-tax payers should be available to any team under the luxury tax, not fully under it like the league is offering.

[Apollo]

S&T will exist for two more years...

Which means the Magic and Hornets are screwed.

Luxury tax teams can do sign-&-trades for first 2 years of new CBA, under owners' new proposal. Not after that.

Owners phase in of sign-&-trade for tax teams is big.Means Dwight, CP3, DWill & Nash could all be signed-&-traded.That keeps LAL n hunt 4 DH

Source: Twitter @Chris_Broussard

In case you're wondering, DeRozan's deal runs out in two years so he won't miss this. If it happens.