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  • chico wrote: View Post
    That's part of what us fans know nothing about. Another part would be the psyche of the player, which coaches and management have daily exposure to. Every player is different. Some do very well thrown into the fire right away. Some don't. Some do very well when brought along slowly. Ibaka as an example, didn't start a game his 1st year and averaged 18 minutes. Only started half the games his 2nd year. Was he messed up by bringing along slowly? I see Pop being touted as starting Parker right away, and inserting Leonard quickly. Pop doesn't take same approach to every player.

    Splitter- 3rd year before significant starts
    Leonard- didn't start 1st 10 games, started 13, then went through another stretch of coming off bench, then starter again, with very inconsistent minutes, mostly in the teens to end season. Was he screwed with because he wasn't played through mistakes, and hurt his development? The inconsistent minuted messed him up?

    For every player that can be cited as having excelled when thrown into the fire consistently, there's another that excelled when brought along slowly. Another factor when balancing development of a young player is how thrusting him into many minutes before he's ready affects other players under development, particularly at the team defensive end. There can be other factors we have no clue of. As an example, JV spending time with a running coach this summer, intended to get him moving lighter and less taxing on his endurance: any chance that was causing him to be gassed and causing some quick hooks that so many complain about? smh at fans who think they know better than the pros how to bring along an NBA player.
    Regarding pop you hit nail on head.

    He doesn't treat every player the same.

    He also doesn't treat every player the same based on something as stupid as age. Leonard 20, Parker 19, and splitter 25 as a rookie.

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    • chico wrote: View Post
      That's part of what us fans know nothing about. Another part would be the psyche of the player, which coaches and management have daily exposure to. Every player is different. Some do very well thrown into the fire right away. Some don't. Some do very well when brought along slowly. Ibaka as an example, didn't start a game his 1st year and averaged 18 minutes. Only started half the games his 2nd year. Was he messed up by bringing along slowly? I see Pop being touted as starting Parker right away, and inserting Leonard quickly. Pop doesn't take same approach to every player.

      Splitter- 3rd year before significant starts
      Leonard- didn't start 1st 10 games, started 13, then went through another stretch of coming off bench, then starter again, with very inconsistent minutes, mostly in the teens to end season. Was he screwed with because he wasn't played through mistakes, and hurt his development? The inconsistent minuted messed him up?

      For every player that can be cited as having excelled when thrown into the fire consistently, there's another that excelled when brought along slowly. Another factor when balancing development of a young player is how thrusting him into many minutes before he's ready affects other players under development, particularly at the team defensive end. There can be other factors we have no clue of. As an example, JV spending time with a running coach this summer, intended to get him moving lighter and less taxing on his endurance: any chance that was causing him to be gassed and causing some quick hooks that so many complain about? smh at fans who think they know better than the pros how to bring along an NBA player.
      +1,000,000
      @Chr1st1anL

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      • chico wrote: View Post
        That's part of what us fans know nothing about. Another part would be the psyche of the player, which coaches and management have daily exposure to. Every player is different. Some do very well thrown into the fire right away. Some don't. Some do very well when brought along slowly. Ibaka as an example, didn't start a game his 1st year and averaged 18 minutes. Only started half the games his 2nd year. Was he messed up by bringing along slowly? I see Pop being touted as starting Parker right away, and inserting Leonard quickly. Pop doesn't take same approach to every player.

        Splitter- 3rd year before significant starts
        Leonard- didn't start 1st 10 games, started 13, then went through another stretch of coming off bench, then starter again, with very inconsistent minutes, mostly in the teens to end season. Was he screwed with because he wasn't played through mistakes, and hurt his development? The inconsistent minuted messed him up?

        For every player that can be cited as having excelled when thrown into the fire consistently, there's another that excelled when brought along slowly. Another factor when balancing development of a young player is how thrusting him into many minutes before he's ready affects other players under development, particularly at the team defensive end. There can be other factors we have no clue of. As an example, JV spending time with a running coach this summer, intended to get him moving lighter and less taxing on his endurance: any chance that was causing him to be gassed and causing some quick hooks that so many complain about? smh at fans who think they know better than the pros how to bring along an NBA player.
        For anyone here who's read Moneyball (and if you haven't, go read it immediately), you know that there can be longstanding, foundationless, utterly false dogmas operating at the highest levels of professional sports. This is why it's good to question those in the positions of authority. Is everything they do wrong? Of course not. Are Raptors coaches and management wrong in this specific case in point (or more broadly, with their approach to grooming young players over the last few years)? Who knows. But I have no problem with intelligent people outside the fraternity of the professional basketball community raising questions when something seems wrong to them.
        "Stop eating your sushi."
        "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
        "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
        - Jack Armstrong

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        • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
          For anyone here who's read Moneyball (and if you haven't, go read it immediately), you know that there can be longstanding, foundationless, utterly false dogmas operating at the highest levels of professional sports. This is why it's good to question those in the positions of authority. Is everything they do wrong? Of course not. Are Raptors coaches and management wrong in this specific case in point (or more broadly, with their approach to grooming young players over the last few years)? Who knows. But I have no problem with intelligent people outside the fraternity of the professional basketball community raising questions when something seems wrong to them.
          Never mind the fact this is a fan forum centred around discussion.

          Comment


          • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
            For anyone here who's read Moneyball (and if you haven't, go read it immediately), you know that there can be longstanding, foundationless, utterly false dogmas operating at the highest levels of professional sports. This is why it's good to question those in the positions of authority. Is everything they do wrong? Of course not. Are Raptors coaches and management wrong in this specific case in point (or more broadly, with their approach to grooming young players over the last few years)? Who knows. But I have no problem with intelligent people outside the fraternity of the professional basketball community raising questions when something seems wrong to them.
            I don't assume pros, in any discipline, are always right. Hell, I've made a living off questioning authority. They're human and DO make mistakes. Nothing wrong with "questioning" moves/decisions. I do all the time, even though I may not engage in such questioning on fan sites. Perhaps because these sites are heavily populated by those who go way beyond wondering why this/that move was made. For example, Casey is constantly labeled as a guy who plays vets simply because they're vets, and doesn't play the young'uns just because they're young. These aren't questions raised, but certainties that infantile biases rule Casey's decisions, and certainty that such simplistic decisions are holding back the development of young guys, despite not knowing more than a small fraction of what the coaches know about these kids, and about coaching in the NBA, and about directives the coach is working under, and........ Questioning is good. Tagging a guy with "he's a fool" label indicates more a need for acceptance of what one doesn't know, than what reading a book will accomplish, imo.

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            • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
              Never mind the fact this is a fan forum centred around discussion.
              Which includes discussion of others' takes on topics, right? Right? So, what's the issue?

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              • chico wrote: View Post
                Which includes discussion of others' takes on topics, right? Right? So, what's the issue?
                Lol

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                • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                  For anyone here who's read Moneyball (and if you haven't, go read it immediately), you know that there can be longstanding, foundationless, utterly false dogmas operating at the highest levels of professional sports. This is why it's good to question those in the positions of authority. Is everything they do wrong? Of course not. Are Raptors coaches and management wrong in this specific case in point (or more broadly, with their approach to grooming young players over the last few years)? Who knows. But I have no problem with intelligent people outside the fraternity of the professional basketball community raising questions when something seems wrong to them.
                  I watched Moneyball. Pretty decent movie lol.

                  Comment


                  • Mental...

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                    • chico wrote: View Post
                      For example, Casey is constantly labeled as a guy who plays vets simply because they're vets, and doesn't play the young'uns just because they're young. These aren't questions raised, but certainties that infantile biases rule Casey's decisions,
                      This label is based on years of observations going back to his time in Minnesota. And you are the one coloring it with your own perceptions, by suggesting his critics think it's an "infantile" bias and that he is being tagged "a fool".

                      I like Casey in general. I don't think he's a fool at all. My only problem with the way he develops kids is that he is far too focused on short term results over long term ones.

                      Every time he avoided playing JV in the fourth quarter just pushed back the timetable for when JV would be ready for those situations. Giving opportunities to journeyman vets in situations where we were clearly rebuilding simply devalues the time we have young players under contract.

                      And there are confidence issues too. Casey's short leash can have a significant impact on players' confidence; young guys are so worried about making mistakes that they overthink the game and lose their natural flow.

                      http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...51&src=desktop

                      Saying that critics of Casey are calling him infantile/a fool is an oversimplistic straw man.
                      It’s Ogugua season. Time to gugua.

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                      • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                        And there are confidence issues too. Casey's short leash can have a significant impact on players' confidence; young guys are so worried about making mistakes that they overthink the game and lose their natural flow.
                        I think it's this part that's very much up for debate.

                        And Casey did start Ross and Val last year, and play them ~28 mpg each.
                        "Bruno?
                        Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                        He's terrible."

                        -Superjudge, 7/23

                        Hope you're wrong.

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                        • stooley wrote: View Post
                          I think it's this part that's very much up for debate.

                          And Casey did start Ross and Val last year, and play them ~28 mpg each.
                          Thank you. People do know that Ross and JV were the only second year players to start in the playoffs. You could say that they both played pretty sub par to their own right. Casey still started and played them. This whole Casey discriminates by age is ridiculous.
                          @Chr1st1anL

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                          • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                            Thank you. People do know that Ross and JV were the only second year players to start in the playoffs. You could say that they both played pretty sub par to their own right. Casey still started and played them. This whole Casey discriminates by age is ridiculous.
                            Well it's not completely ridiculous, but I think it's a little blown out of proportion.
                            "Bruno?
                            Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                            He's terrible."

                            -Superjudge, 7/23

                            Hope you're wrong.

                            Comment


                            • stooley wrote: View Post
                              Well it's not completely ridiculous, but I think it's a little blown out of proportion.
                              True, some posters make it seem like most coaches don't do the same thing.
                              @Chr1st1anL

                              Comment




                              • SVG talking about player development at 30:45
                                Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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