Everything Jared Sullinger

[Chr1s1anL]

Casey was coming off a terrible 33 win season. Flip Saunders also got fired for coaching KG to a 26-25 record, coming off a 58 win season and 4 out of 5 seasons of 50+ wins. The expectations to win are high when you're coaching good/great players, so 20-20 is the same as losing.

That's the point you fail to grasp about Stevens - Danny Ainge has been somewhat trying to tank with young guys, role players and no depth on the roster; but Stevens has been coaching them up to a much better record than their talent indicates.

Wasn't Masai trying to tank too? Casey kept winning. Masai had to change his whole direction he wanted to go.

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

[Chr1s1anL]

KG was in his prime but, it takes more than one player to win in the west. The roster around KG wasn't anything to brag about.

Its like saying Pels should never have a losing record with Anthony Davis on the team.

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

[golden]

KG was in his prime but, it takes more than one player to win in the west. The roster around KG wasn't anything to brag about.

Its like saying Pels should never have a losing record with Anthony Davis on the team.

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

Except that KG was a perennial 50+ winner and Casey turned that into a 33 win team. Anthony Davis hasn't proved he can win yet, or even stay healthy. Apples and oranges.

And Casey did that at age 49, meanwhile Stevens is doing better than Casey at 10 years younger age. Stevens is going to surpass anything Casey has or will accomplish by the time he's done.

[golden]

Wasn't Masai trying to tank too? Casey kept winning. Masai had to change his whole direction he wanted to go.

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

Everybody knows the history: Lowry didn't respect Casey and was already traded to the Knicks, except Dolan miraculously vetoed the trade. Lowry had serious discussions with Chauncey Billups and Masai (+ Leweike, Tanenbaum & Embry) which made him grow up and tolerate Casey. He was told to change his attitude, body language, communication, etc... This is all well documented with direct interviews from Masai and Lowry.

The team turnaround was because Masai and Billups got through to Lowry, and was truly n spite of Casey, in this case. Lowry tolerates Casey because he respects Masai.

[Chr1s1anL]

Except that KG was a perennial 50+ winner and Casey turned that into a 33 win team. Anthony Davis hasn't proved he can win yet, or even stay healthy. Apples and oranges.

And Casey did that at age 49, meanwhile Stevens is doing better than Casey at 10 years younger age. Stevens is going to surpass anything Casey has or will accomplish by the time he's done.

Yeah, when KG won those seasons he had a better team. They also didn't win 50 games the year before Casey was coach. After KG's MVP season the wolves started a serious decline. Thats cause they started losing talent. Also firing a coach half way through the season and your 500 is bad management. That's why they havent been at 500 since.

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

[golden]

Yeah, when KG won those seasons he had a better team. They also didn't win 50 games the year before Casey was coach. After KG's MVP season the wolves started a serious decline. Thats cause they started losing talent. Also firing a coach half way through the season and your 500 is bad management. That's why they havent been at 500 since.

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

Kevin McHale took over from Flip and closed out the season 19-12, which projects to 50 wins over the whole season. That was clearly a coaching problem. That wasn't a 33-win team by any stretch, which they did under Casey the next season. McHale hiring a rookie (Casey) to coach KG in his prime was a mistake, so it's not all his fault. Casey just couldn't gain the respect of the team.

But again, this is Casey vs. Stevens, so let's compare their first 3 seasons as NBA coaches, since I know you're all about the W-L record

Casey (54yrs): 76-112 (.404)
Stevens (39yrs): 113-133 (.459)

Stevens is better, even before accounting for: (a) Casey having an MVP (KG) on his roster for 2 seasons, (b) Danny Ainge trading Rondo and Green while openly tanking for Wiggins in Stevens rookie season & (c) Age & NBA experience

[Chr1s1anL]

Kevin McHale took over from Flip and closed out the season 19-12, which projects to 50 wins over the whole season. That was clearly a coaching problem. That wasn't a 33-win team by any stretch, which they did under Casey the next season. McHale hiring a rookie (Casey) to coach KG in his prime was a mistake, so it's not all his fault. Casey just couldn't gain the respect of the team.

But again, this is Casey vs. Stevens, so let's compare their first 3 seasons as NBA coaches, since I know you're all about the W-L record

Casey (54yrs): 76-112 (.404)
Stevens (39yrs): 113-133 (.459)

Stevens is better, even before accounting for: (a) Casey having an MVP (KG) on his roster for 2 seasons, (b) Danny Ainge trading Rondo and Green while openly tanking for Wiggins in Stevens rookie season & (c) Age & NBA experience

Name the starting lineup the two years Casey was coaching

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

[golden]

Name the starting lineup the two years Casey was coaching

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

.... and compare that with the starting lineups in Stevens first 2 seasons. Not even close.

[Chr1s1anL]

Everybody knows the history: Lowry didn't respect Casey and was already traded to the Knicks, except Dolan miraculously vetoed the trade. Lowry had serious discussions with Chauncey Billups and Masai (+ Leweike, Tanenbaum & Embry) which made him grow up and tolerate Casey. He was told to change his attitude, body language, communication, etc... This is all well documented with direct interviews from Masai and Lowry.

The team turnaround was because Masai and Billups got through to Lowry, and was truly n spite of Casey, in this case. Lowry tolerates Casey because he respects Masai.

Really don't know how Lowry can do all he has done in spite of his coach. Seeing that no coach has ever given Lowry this much responsibility and usage in an offense. Also Lowry very much respects Casey. I've heard him say it multiple times.

Like him or not Lowry best basketball has come under Casey's coaching. To say that Casey has no part in that is just laughable.

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

[Chr1s1anL]

.... and compare that with the starting lineups in Stevens first 2 seasons. Not even close.

Than compare them to the conference they play in. Casey is still second in the franchise in winning % after Flip Saunders. Basically no coach had success with KG in his prime but, Flip Saunders.

We also dont know how the team would of finished when they started 20-20 with 42 games to go.

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

[planetmars]

Casey has improved a lot since he came to Toronto, but still has a lot of faults.

What are some of the faults that Stevens has? Is it simply that he can't get through the first round? They had to play the Lebrons the one year, and the other year 2/3 of their best players were injured. I usually avoid watching the Celtics play until they are playing the Raptors. So can't really comment on his coaching.

[Nilanka]

Casey has improved a lot since he came to Toronto, but still has a lot of faults.

What are some of the faults that Stevens has? Is it simply that he can't get through the first round? They had to play the Lebrons the one year, and the other year 2/3 of their best players were injured. I usually avoid watching the Celtics play until they are playing the Raptors. So can't really comment on his coaching.

He seemed to have been juggling his lineups all season. Especially his front court. Too indecisive perhaps?

[golden]

Than compare them to the conference they play in. Casey is still second in the franchise in winning % after Flip Saunders. Basically no coach had success with KG in his prime but, Flip Saunders.

We also dont know how the team would of finished when they started 20-20 with 42 games to go.

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

Strength of conference? That opens up a whole new line of debate. The Atlantic conference has been one of the worst conferences in the history professional sports, since Casey took over the Raps. He's had the benefit of teams like Philly and Boston who are trying to lose on purpose, and grossly mis-managed franchises like Brooklyn and the Knicks. And he benefited from the signing of Masai, who provides the respect and fear of accountability to the players, that Casey lacks. His timing has been impeccable.

If you want to bring strength of conference into the equation, then you have to put a big asterix against everything Casey has achieved with the Raps, to be fair, in comparison to Stevens whose team was openly tanking. I'm not going to go that far, but since you brought that up, it's going to backfire against your original thesis. Casey's led a charmed life, in that context.

Look, I'm pretty OK with Casey at this stage of the team's development, but Stevens is an excellent young coach who, given time and talent, has every indication he will far surpass anything Casey has achieved in the NBA. I can guarantee you that if Danny Ainge ever let Brad Stevens out of his contract right now, there would be at least half the teams ready to fire their current coaches just to hire Stevens. I don't think you could say the same about Casey.

[Chr1s1anL]

Strength of conference? That opens up a whole new line of debate. The Atlantic conference has been one of the worst conferences in the history professional sports, since Casey took over the Raps. He's had the benefit of teams like Philly and Boston who are trying to lose on purpose, and grossly mis-managed franchises like Brooklyn and the Knicks. And he benefited from the signing of Masai, who provides the respect and fear of accountability to the players, that Casey lacks. His timing has been impeccable.

If you want to bring strength of conference into the equation, then you have to put a big asterix against everything Casey has achieved with the Raps, to be fair, in comparison to Stevens whose team was openly tanking. I'm not going to go that far, but since you brought that up, it's going to backfire against your original thesis. Casey's led a charmed life, in that context.

Look, I'm pretty OK with Casey at this stage of the team's development, but Stevens is an excellent young coach who, given time and talent, has every indication he will far surpass anything Casey has achieved in the NBA. I can guarantee you that if Danny Ainge ever let Brad Stevens out of his contract right now, there would be at least half the teams ready to fire their current coaches just to hire Stevens. I don't think you could say the same about Casey.

You do know that Stevens plays in the same terrible conference. You would have to put asterik next to his record as well. Casey has had great records against West for the last 3 years. If Casey got fired with what his done in Toronto. Improving his record the last 5 years. He wouldn't be unemployeed long. Masai is smarter than that though.



Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

[rightsideup]

Casey was coming off a terrible 33 win season. Flip Saunders also got fired for coaching KG to a 26-25 record, coming off a 58 win season and 4 out of 5 seasons of 50+ wins. The expectations to win are high when you're coaching good/great players, so 20-20 is the same as losing.

That's the point you fail to grasp about Stevens - Danny Ainge has been somewhat trying to tank with young guys, role players and no depth on the roster; but Stevens has been coaching them up to a much better record than their talent indicates.

I do not agree there is a lot of depth on that team.