Everything VanVleet

[slaw]

Absolute disaster if they have nobody to replace Fred.

What does replace mean? I agree that you can't go into next season with Trent and Gradey as your only playable guards but if there's solid role player available to play PG?

[grindhouse]

what style of basketball are we expecting to see next year maybe thats the question we should be asking your if we need another guard what style of guard do we need? pick and roll i am assume is what people are looking for?

i completely get the concern.

also what are we expecting to happening next year rebuild? championship? do we really expect to meet heat boston denver standards in a off season.

what is the most important move what can we wait for?

[golden]

Sadly, it's not realistic unless they lose Jak and trade Pascal too, and even then it will depend heavily on avoiding getting useful players back in that trade and having enough guys "hurt" throughout the year.

Exactly. It's very hard for us to bottom out for a high pick... or become a legit contender. Truly "stuck" in the middle.

I'm trying to understand what the definition of "absolute disaster" is to Raptors fans. To Masai, I thought that was treadmill... but we are firmly there already. And they are selling it to fans like, "parity is good... look at the Heat".

[Yuri Gagarin]

what style of basketball are we expecting to see next year maybe thats the question we should be asking your if we need another guard what style of guard do we need? pick and roll i am assume is what people are looking for?

i completely get the concern.

also what are we expecting to happening next year rebuild? championship? do we really expect to meet heat boston denver standards in a off season.

what is the most important move what can we wait for?

Agree. Need to pump the breaks a little. Many act like we’re on the cusp of a championship. I think this is a great year to get a really close look at flynn, banton, dowtin and markquis under darko

[Primer]

Thank you Houston, you are doing us a solid.

We can get a decent stop gap PG with the MLE.

or we could trade Pascal and turn the page over to a new era.

Exciting times.

[MixxAOR]

what style of basketball are we expecting to see next year maybe thats the question we should be asking your if we need another guard what style of guard do we need? pick and roll i am assume is what people are looking for?

i completely get the concern.

also what are we expecting to happening next year rebuild? championship? do we really expect to meet heat boston denver standards in a off season.

what is the most important move what can we wait for?

We gave up a pick for Jak so expectation was to compete. At the end of the day this will be continuation of poor asset management if they lose Fred for nothing

[Yuri Gagarin]

Imagine they take fred and brooks? Green isnt a great shooter either. The houston chuckers. Theyll end up with the same record

[Yuri Gagarin]

We gave up a pick for Jak so expectation was to compete. At the end of the day this will be continuation of poor asset management if they lose Fred for nothing

Thats why some here have been calling for trading fred for years. Poor asset management indeed

[LJ2]

Imagine they take fred and brooks? Green isnt a great shooter either. The houston chuckers. Theyll end up with the same record

Actually I was thinking what if Houston signed both Fred and Draymond? Not sure Houston has the cap for that, but those are two veteran guys that could provide some veteran leadership to a young and immature team.

[Limited Upside]

Actually I was thinking what if Houston signed both Fred and Draymond? Not sure Houston has the cap for that, but those are two veteran guys that could provide some veteran leadership to a young and immature team.

Don't think Draymond would have interest in Houston. But HOU does have rumored interest in Kuzma. If they want all three of FVV, Brooks and Kuz, they'll need ~90M (40/20/30). Makes a FVV sign-and-trade more possible, if not likely.

[planetmars]

So you don't want Fred? Cool, me neither.

Fred is NOT A PG.

Like holy crap guys, he's just not.

He's a combo guard who leans heavily towards SG.

Just because he's short does not make him a PG.

I had a busy day today so not sure if anyone replied to this post yet as I haven't caught up on the board yet... yes Fred is a combo guard, but he definitely has PG skills. We can see it from his synergy stats. He's a really good pick and roll partner for Poeltl. He has the ability to drive and kick out better than anyone else we have. It's not about size, just his skill set. He's got flaws for sure (every NBA player does). But yes he can be identified as a PG. He was better on ball than off ball which was surprising going into the season.. but most of that was likely due to his poor C&S 3pt shooting which I still believe was an aberration for him.

[planetmars]

If "absolute disaster" means finishing bottom 6 and retaining our 2024 FRP while getting the young guys more experience, then maybe that's the way to go.

An absolute disaster to me would be another lottery appearance. This time without a draft pick to bang on. And that seems more likely now if Fred walks than it did before we had a chance to sign him.

I don't trust the mid level. Our team sucks so bad in free agency. I don't trust them to get that right this time around either.

I also don't think Barnes is a PG.

[golden]

An absolute disaster to me would be another lottery appearance. This time without a draft pick to bang on. And that seems more likely now if Fred walks than it did before we had a chance to sign him.

I don't trust the mid level. Our team sucks so bad in free agency. I don't trust them to get that right this time around either.

I also don't think Barnes is a PG.

We made our beds trading Jakob for that lottery pick and have to live with that. It’s still an asset. You can’t play an entire season trying to avoid finishing in a specific range in the lottery… other than trying to tank outright. That’s ludicrous and pretty much impossible.

The biggest decision to make is if you want to give the Fred/Pascal/OG core one last chance to show you something. And that chance comes at a high cost of overpaying Fred… assuming that’s still an option.

If there’s a “disaster” it’s because of decisions that were made years ago… ie, betting and re-betting on this core + Nurse and letting their contracts get too close to expiring to have fair trade value.

[golden]

We gave up a pick for Jak so expectation was to compete. At the end of the day this will be continuation of poor asset management if they lose Fred for nothing

Yeah, Masai is/was waaay too loyal to his people. Always giving them chance after chance and paying dearly (with assets and time) to remove excuses for not winning - when it’s obvious too many that our core and Nurse were/are both overrated.

Can’t remember which famous sports Gm was quoted on this, but he said first rule is that you can’t fall in love with your own players (and coach).

[planetmars]

We made our beds trading Jakob for that lottery pick and have to live with that. It’s still an asset. You can’t play an entire season trying to avoid finishing in a specific range in the lottery… other than trying to tank outright. That’s ludicrous and pretty much impossible.

The biggest decision to make is if you want to give the Fred/Pascal/OG core one last chance to show you something. And that chance comes at a high cost of overpaying Fred… assuming that’s still an option.

If there’s a “disaster” it’s because of decisions that were made years ago… ie, betting and re-betting on this core + Nurse and letting their contracts get too close to expiring to have fair trade value.

They played it right though. We've talked about it enough. That 2020 team was worth keeping. They were one of the best teams in the league and then Covid happened, and we had to play without fans and lost our home court advantage. Pascal was having a great season up to that point too. It was a disaster.

The following season Marc and Serge left. Thankfully. Neither had trade value though. Marc was signed for the vet minimum. Serge got a mid level. That's a Boucher level deal. You don't get much back for that. We got Precious for Lowry. Maybe that could have been more.. but he was only really eyeing one team as a free agent yet we still got a pretty decent prospect for him.

The following season they got to 48 wins after some weird Covid moments. Had to play at home without fans for half the season. But we still had a rookie of the year. Maybe that was the year to trade Fred or Pascal. I don't know. It was tough though because we still had momentum in the second half that season after Christmas, and before the deadline. I think believing in that team was the right call. It just didn't work out. And then now we're here.

The only thing we can talk about is the deadline and going for it. Giving up that pick, trading for Poeltl. Not trading Fred or OG or Pascal at the deadline instead and tanking. Masai felt the addition of a center would right the course here. Maybe he read that wrong. But as you said, they made their beds there.

It really comes down to Houston having $60M in cap space. A new CBA clause requiring the cap floor to be 90% of the cap space. And Houston bringing in an NBA finals head coach looking to make a mark on day one. Fred happens to be one of the top free agents of his class... and they want to overspend to get him. That's the reality that Masai likely didn't see coming at the deadline.

But it is what it is. Now we might lose Fred (looking far more likely than ever before).. and our contingency plan will be some form of young guard like Flynn, Banton, or that new guy from Kansas State. And/or some MLE vet.. and hopefully for once in Masai's tenure they bring in a free agent from outside that pans out. I think he's batting 0 though, unless I'm missing someone.

Who's the best free agent Masai has signed, not including UDFA's like Fred? Was it Psycho-T or RHJ? Baynes, Len, Stanimal, Carroll, McCaw have all been jokes.