Everything Derozan

[Uncle_Si]

I'll reiterate the same concept. Stop using the word "fanboy" it causes problems.

These discussions are all fine until people start using labels for "the other side".

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but why do you have to call me "the other side"??? Sorrrrrrryyyyyyy I'm not from the right side of the tracks.

[OldSkoolCool]

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but why do you have to call me "the other side"??? Sorrrrrrryyyyyyy I'm not from the right side of the tracks.

[yabadabayolo]

Hayward is on a losing team cuz his team sucks ain't his fault there rebuilding. This team would be better with Hayward then DeMar

What I'm saying is that Hayward's stats are bloated because he plays for a bad team. He basically has all the reins and doesn't have much pressure since everyone thinks, hey they are supposed suck, that's why Hayward isn't doing well. While if demar is having an off night, all hell brakes loose because he actually has some pressure to do well.

That's the difference, and IMO. Neither demar nor Hayward are suited to #1 guys. Demar looks more like a 2nd option on a contending team while Hayward would be a great 3rd/4th option where he can get you an effficient 16 night in and out.

This team wouldn't be the same without dd, because who would raptors nation blame when we don't go undefeated through the whole season. Or would that anger be directed towards Hayward in that situation?

[ball4life]

I don't think so man...

I think Masai and his men should be raising their eyebrows. Basically a carbon copy of dd is making only make 4 mill more than him now. And that's still 3 mill less than goran fucking Hayward

That's a great price for gay AND dd IMO

Please. Gay's talent is much superior to DDs. Gay can do so many other things while chucking as much as DD.

had Gay made DD money and DD made Gay money last season, Masai would have shipped a different chucker to Kings.

[yabadabayolo]

Please. Gay's talent is much superior to DDs. Gay can do so many other things while chucking as much as DD.

had Gay made DD money and DD made Gay money last season, Masai would have shipped a different chucker to Kings.

I don't know man, I still think they are pretty similar. Look at any statistical category. They are almost identical, some categories gay takes and others dd takes. And that being by a small margin too.

How do you think gay is THAT much superior to dd. And dd is 3 years younger, so he's just entering his prime while gay is in the thick of his prime.

[OldSkoolCool]

What I'm saying is that Hayward's stats are bloated because he plays for a bad team. He basically has all the reins and doesn't have much pressure since everyone thinks, hey they are supposed suck, that's why Hayward isn't doing well.

DD has all the reins and has a huge opportunity to pad his stats (30% USG) on a good team who has other players that the D has to worry about too.

Hayward uses 6% less of the offense, yet has nearly double the assist rate, rebounds more and only scores 3ppg less on a much better TS%. I don't know if the whole "padded stats on a bad team" holds up for Hayward. His team sucking has very little to do with him. Hayward's OWS nearly triples DD (DeMar has better DWS due to the Raps team D), and a higher WS/48 than DD, despite being on a losing team.

[ball4life]

I don't know man, I still think they are pretty similar. Look at any statistical category. They are almost identical, some categories gay takes and others dd takes. And that being by a small margin too.

How do you think gay is THAT much superior to dd. And dd is 3 years younger, so he's just entering his prime while gay is in the thick of his prime.

ball handling, court vision (when he has to make plays for others), length, better defense, rebounding, better 3 pointer, better on fast break, arguably better athletically and can create his own shot and Clutch as fuck.

Feel free to disagree using stats but IMO he is a level above DD in every category.

Im not saying he is a great player but he is certainly better than DD at this point.

[yabadabayolo]

DD has all the reins and has a huge opportunity to pad his stats (30% USG) on a good team who has other players that the D has to worry about too.

Hayward uses 6% less of the offense, yet has nearly double the assist rate, rebounds more and only scores 3ppg less on a much better TS%. I don't know if the whole "padded stats on a bad team" holds up for Hayward. His team sucking has very little to do with him. Hayward's OWS nearly triples DD (DeMar has better DWS due to the Raps team D), and a higher WS/48 than DD, despite being on a losing team.

Buddy buddy buddy. It's still early, I'm not going to compare stats just yet. Give me until at least the 20 game mark when everyone has regressed/improved to the means. Until then, I'm only looking at stats from last year. And if by the 20 game mark, Hayward still looks super superior to dd. I can believe it.

I'm not saying dd is the best player ever, but I'm saying there is no way he's worse than goran Hayward.

[yabadabayolo]

ball handling, court vision (when he has to make plays for others), length, better defense, rebounding, better 3 pointer, better on fast break, arguably better athletically and can create his own shot and Clutch as fuck.

Feel free to disagree using stats but IMO he is a level above DD in every category.

Im not saying he is a great player but he is certainly better than DD at this point.

Yep, rudy is clutch as fuck. I'll give him that. Everything else excluding length, is arguable and could go either way. Are you really going to get in an argument with your base being that rudy gay is a good ball handler, c'mon now, he is an insta turnover if you just poke your hand into him when he's driving. He averages more turnovers than dd.

[special1]

ball handling, court vision (when he has to make plays for others), length, better defense, rebounding, better 3 pointer, better on fast break, arguably better athletically and can create his own shot and Clutch as fuck.

Feel free to disagree using stats but IMO he is a level above DD in every category.

Im not saying he is a great player but he is certainly better than DD at this point.

LOL hahaha

Good one. You can't revise history. Rudy had his chance here and he FAILED. Rudy said Demar's the best SG he ever played with...not the other way around.

Demar's an all-star and will be a two time all-star this year. We're number one in the East for the time being and all you can do is complain about our number 1 guy??

We should change this thread to "posters who refuse to get off Demar's member." It's funny how most of the posters who continue to post are the ones who were shamed last year and continue to look like whiny sore losers.

Demar's not perfect but I would take him 10 times out of 10 over Rudy "I can't see the hoop or my teammates" Gay. If you love Rudy so much why don't you go root for Sacramento? This is a Raptors fan forum right? Why the constant bitching on our lone all-star?

Team USA picked Demar and Rudy and NOT Gordon Hayward lasts year. The coaches picked Demar to be an all-star and didn't pick either Hayward or Gay EVER. Maybe that changes this year....doesn't matter. What Demar accomplished in the last year means more to me than just looking at a stats sheet or a small sample size of ten games.

[ball4life]

Yep, rudy is clutch as fuck. I'll give him that. Everything else excluding length, is arguable and could go either way. Are you really going to get in an argument with your base being that rudy gay is a good ball handler, c'mon now, he is an insta turnover if you just poke your hand into him when he's driving. He averages more turnovers than dd.

Kevin Durant
James Harden
Steph Curry on and on and on they all average or have averaged more TOs than DD. are you gonna say DD has better handle than all of them? this is where Stats dont paint the whole picture.

[white men can't jump]

Kevin Durant
James Harden
Steph Curry on and on and on they all average or have averaged more TOs than DD. are you gonna say DD has better handle than all of them? this is where Stats dont paint the whole picture.

I don't want to get into this argument much...but Gay is a terrible terrible ballhandler. High dribble. Loses it all the time trying to go through traffic. Not particularly tight handling it at all on moves. It's by far the weakest part of his game (skill-set wise) and thoroughly unimpressive, and arguably below average for any wing, let alone high usage players.

[ball4life]

LOL hahaha

Good one. You can't revise history. Rudy had his chance here and he FAILED. Rudy said Demar's the best SG he ever played with...not the other way around.

Demar's an all-star and will be a two time all-star this year. We're number one in the East for the time being and all you can do is complain about our number 1 guy??

We should change this thread to "posters who refuse to get off Demar's member." It's funny how most of the posters who continue to post are the ones who were shamed last year and continue to look like whiny sore losers.

Demar's not perfect but I would take him 10 times out of 10 over Rudy "I can't see the hoop or my teammates" Gay. If you love Rudy so much why don't you go root for Sacramento? This is a Raptors fan forum right? Why the constant bitching on our lone all-star?

Team USA picked Demar and Rudy and NOT Gordon Hayward lasts year. The coaches picked Demar to be an all-star and didn't pick either Hayward or Gay EVER. Maybe that changes this year....doesn't matter. What Demar accomplished in the last year means more to me than just looking at a stats sheet or a small sample size of ten games.

Wow calm down period girl. nobodys shitting on DD. just merely stating my opinion that Gay is more talented than andits his contract that has him not worth it.

And all the highlighted above are so unnecessary to a healthy discussion me and yabadayola were having. I am not sure what i said offended you to lash out like this. but its pretty childish. move on...

[ball4life]

I don't want to get into this argument much...but Gay is a terrible terrible ballhandler. High dribble. Loses it all the time trying to go through traffic. Not particularly tight handling it at all on moves. It's by far the weakest part of his game (skill-set wise) and thoroughly unimpressive, and arguably below average for any wing, let alone high usage players.

we were comparing DD and Gay's handles. although gays not great i still believe its much better than DD's amateur like dribbles.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I'll reiterate the same concept. Stop using the word "fanboy" it causes problems.

These discussions are all fine until people start using labels for "the other side".

Please stop moderating fellow posters and leave that to the admins/mods to manage.

That goes for all posters, as a reminder.