Everything Derozan

[golden]

that hitch is real

Then put in the work to fix it, or learn how to shoot with it. Shawn Marion shot almost .400 3P% a few seasons with the Suns while practically flipping the ball up from his gut.

[white men can't jump]

Then put in the work to fix it, or learn how to shoot with it. Shawn Marion shot almost .400 3P% a few seasons with the Suns while practically flipping the ball up from his gut.

And DeMar has had to fix his shot before. It's not like his current form is what he had in his rookie year. He changed it quite a bit to be more effective in the mid-range (*at least theoretically).

[JWash]

DeMar is what he is. Not good enough to be the focal point of a championship level team, but unfortunately we don't have championship talent so he is a focal point (if not the main focal point) of ours. Expecting to be a contender in such a situation is like expecting Canada to have a higher yearly average temperature than Qatar.

I do think DD could probably be the 3rd best player on a championship team and maybe even the 2nd leading scorer. But the common denominator there is superstar talent. We don't have it, we need to get it. We can sit here all day talking about this and that, but that's what it boils down to.

That being said. Unless you're replacing him with Durant or some other superstar player, I'd just re-sign him for ~20M per year (for the max I start asking some serious questions). I'd probably go as high as 4/90M (which would work out to be a touch over 20% of the cap for the life of the deal --- his last contract was ~16% of the cap over the life of the deal), but I don't think I'd be willing to pay DD the full max at all (5yr/145M). $29M per year for a tier 3 or 4 player sounds insane.

However I think some are overestimating the likelihood of DD to be offered maxes by other teams. Almost every NBA team has caught onto the reality of advanced stats at this point and realize that DeRozan as your best scorer isn't leading you much past 50 wins at most and a 1st/2nd round exit. I don't think many teams would be willing to fork over almost 30% of their cap over the next 4 years for him.

The teams that might make offers like that are like Brooklyn or MAYBE LA (but I doubt it, I think Kupchak is going to go full rebuild once Kobe is done). And I think DD puts too much of a value on winning to sign with a team like the Nets even if it is for more money.

I see a lot of people talking about Batum, but Batum is actually going to be more expensive than DeRozan this offseason. I almost guarantee he gets a bigger contract than him. We're not the only ones who realize that he has better advanced stats and impacts the game in more ways. NBA teams have long since caught onto this reality and PPG isn't the only thing that matters anymore (not that Batum can't score too). He's almost a surefire max imo, and I wouldn't want to pay him that at all.

[raptors999]

This is what I really don't understand about Derozan: Why hasn't he developed at least a serviceable 3pt shot?

Even Scola, a low post specialist, at age 35, is hitting 3s which is something he never did before. DeMarre Carroll says a 3pt shot is all about putting in the work and reps, plain and simple. DD supposedly has a legendary off-season work ethic. Is he just not working on 3s, or think they aren't important for a shooting guard, or has been instructed not to?

In game Derozan has the ball alot and doesn't really move off-ball to take threes. Scola moves to get himself open which is as important as shot mechanics

[Scraptor]

that hitch is real

life is a hitch and then you get $20 million a year

[Axel]

DeMar is what he is. Not good enough to be the focal point of a championship level team, but unfortunately we don't have championship talent so he is a focal point (if not the main focal point) of ours. Expecting to be a contender in such a situation is like expecting Canada to have a higher yearly average temperature than Qatar.

Except that this team could make changes to put them closer to real championship aspirations. Canada can't change its average temperature.

Resigning DD for $20M, $22.5M, whatever greatly reduces the flexibility to land a star player. He isn't good enough to lure a star, and his cap space could be better spent. If you think this team can't win a championship as constructed, I don't understand why you'd want to commit so much into a player who factors greatly into the current roster construction.

[JWash]

Except that this team could make changes to put them closer to real championship aspirations. Canada can't change its average temperature.

Resigning DD for $20M, $22.5M, whatever greatly reduces the flexibility to land a star player. He isn't good enough to lure a star, and his cap space could be better spent. If you think this team can't win a championship as constructed, I don't understand why you'd want to commit so much into a player who factors greatly into the current roster construction.

Reason would be to at least maintain the level we're at and not lose a significant asset. Even if you sign him to that deal, a 20-5-5 all-star shooting guard in his prime with basically no injury issues isn't going to be untradeable on that type of a deal. So in the event you want to go in a different direction later that door is always open. Or alternatively he could be part of the team if we were able to get a superstar in addition to what we already have via trade.

Obviously if it's a choice between landing Durant or Horford and bringing DD back you help him pack his suitcase, but if not there's not really much logic in losing a significant asset for nothing unless the price tag is so high that it would make him untradeable (which a max MIGHT, but ~20M per year would not in the new cap environment).

Letting DD just walk doesn't seem logical to me, and to be honest looking at Masai's track record with re-signing his own guys he probably shares that sentiment. Retain your assets unless you can get something better or the cost to retain that asset would make it no longer an asset.

[Axel]

Reason would be to at least maintain the level we're at and not lose a significant asset. Even if you sign him to that deal, a 20-5-5 all-star shooting guard in his prime with basically no injury issues isn't going to be untradeable on that type of a deal. So in the event you want to go in a different direction later that door is always open. Or alternatively he could be part of the team if we were able to get a superstar in addition to what we already have via trade.

Obviously if it's a choice between landing Durant or Horford and bringing DD back you help him pack his suitcase, but if not there's not really much logic in losing a significant asset for nothing unless the price tag is so high that it would make him untradeable (which a max MIGHT, but ~20M per year would not in the new cap environment).

Letting DD just walk doesn't seem logical to me, and to be honest looking at Masai's track record with re-signing his own guys he probably shares that sentiment. Retain your assets unless you can get something better or the cost to retain that asset would make it no longer an asset.

I agree that a 20-5-5 is a good asset to have, but DD isn't that. He's never averaged 5 rebounds or 5 assists in any season, so can't really say he's a both guy.

You said you'd go $22.5M (4/90) for him, that's much more than he's worth and could be difficult to trade. The opportunity cost is the biggest issue imo. The money is simply better spent in other areas on other players. Trade DD in season if the concern is him walking for nothing, but much like Amir and Lou, letting him walk to sign a better fit is preferable.

[JWash]

I agree that a 20-5-5 is a good asset to have, but DD isn't that. He's never averaged 5 rebounds or 5 assists in any season, so can't really say he's a both guy.

You said you'd go $22.5M (4/90) for him, that's much more than he's worth and could be difficult to trade. The opportunity cost is the biggest issue imo. The money is simply better spent in other areas on other players. Trade DD in season if the concern is him walking for nothing, but much like Amir and Lou, letting him walk to sign a better fit is preferable.

Ok 20-5-4 or 20-4-4 then (his averages the past 3 seasons).... like let's not nitpick here lol. Either way, he's a good trade asset. I don't see how a 4/90 deal (btw this is the upper end of what I'd pay him) makes him untradeable, when many here think that teams are going to offer him the max (forcing Masai to also offer the same to retain). Obviously it's different signing a player vs. trading for them, but a guy who can produce those numbers in his prime consistently with zero baggage and minimal injury woes is always going to have trade value lol. Especially with the cap ballooning in the next few years (the max for guys with DD's experience just 2 years from now in 2017 is going to start at ~30M).

And I don't see DeMar as being in the same boat as Amir or Lou. In terms of trade value they're not in the same category at all. Just looking at the kind of deals they signed it's easy to see that we would've gotten minimal return in a deal for either of the two.

[Axel]

Ok 20-5-4 or 20-4-4 then (his averages the past 3 seasons).... like let's not nitpick here lol. Either way, he's a good trade asset. I don't see how a 4/90 deal (btw this is the upper end of what I'd pay him) makes him untradeable, when many here think that teams are going to offer him the max (forcing Masai to also offer the same to retain). Obviously it's different signing a player vs. trading for them, but a guy who can produce those numbers in his prime consistently with zero baggage and minimal injury woes is always going to have trade value lol. Especially with the cap ballooning in the next few years (the max for guys with DD's experience just 2 years from now in 2017 is going to start at ~30M).

And I don't see DeMar as being in the same boat as Amir or Lou. In terms of trade value they're not in the same category at all. Just looking at the kind of deals they signed it's easy to see that we would've gotten minimal return in a deal for either of the two.

Well 20-5-5 is considered a special threshold in NBA history, and DD has reached either 5, so you may call it nitpicking, but rounding up categories can very much change the perception.

If you think that DD is different than Lou/Amir, then surely a trade market will exist before the deadline.

Losing assets for nothing is bad, but over-paying them can be worse.

[Chr1s1anL]

People really still think its a possibility DD is going to be traded in the season? I don't.

The only reason I brought up trading JV is if the team has success while his out. If the team still wins at the clip or better while JV is out than his better used as trade bait. I really don't think Sac town could get a better package than JV/Ross + NYK/DEN pick for DMC. If Sac town doesn't the make 5 playoffs this year I think DMC is gone.

[Chr1s1anL]

Well 20-5-5 is considered a special threshold in NBA history, and DD has reached either 5, so you may call it nitpicking, but rounding up categories can very much change the perception.

If you think that DD is different than Lou/Amir, then surely a trade market will exist before the deadline.

Losing assets for nothing is bad, but over-paying them can be worse.

So if DD got one extra rebound and one extra assist a night that would change you perspective?

[Axel]

So if DD got one extra rebound and one extra assist a night that would change you perspective?

If DD played a well rounded game that produced beyond scoring, it would be a different player.

[Chr1s1anL]

If DD played a well rounded game that produced beyond scoring, it would be a different player.

He does do more than scoring. If your averaging 4 assist and 4 rebounds your obviously doing more than scoring. I don't get why one extra assist and rebound would make such a difference.

[Snooch]

20-5-5 lol.


only second time in his CAREER, 18 games in, has demar posted a net positive rating....and its only 3.

28% usage

24 shots to get 21 points

4 assist and 4 rebounds off of that massive usage isnt that big of a deal.

Lowry is putting up superior numbers accross the board at 12 million per.

So Demars not as good as lowry, so Demar should get paid less.