Everything Derozan

[JWash]

Maybe you could drop a precis of this post into the DeRozan-All-Star thread? I find the comments that focus on his perimeter shooting as a "down-side" - so as to negate any positive inference - when he's leading the conference's SG's in scoring and doing it more efficiently, this year, as well.

Ehh, Jimmy Butler is playing a lot better than him. Objectively, Butler should be the clearcut starter, but since I'm a Raps fan he won't get my vote, DD will.

We're talking about a dude with .200 WS/48, 57 TS%, +15 netRTG, he's been quite a bit better than DD (and all the other guards in the east minus Lowry).

I'm not really trying to indicate that DD is a star or whatever with the above post about his drives. But what it does show is that now that DD is dedicating his offense to driving/slashing a lot more, he is one of -- if not the best -- slashing guards in the league this season. And there isn't really anything unsustainable about it either. Always been a great finisher at the rim, and always been good at scoring in the paint. The more of those shots he trades for long-2s the better.

Let's not derail the discussion by debating whether he's a deserving all-star starter or not, it's irrelevant. The point is that DD is unquestionably an elite slashing guard this season and I'd really like to see that continue.

[Wild-ling#1]

Ehh, Jimmy Butler is playing a lot better than him. Objectively, Butler should be the clearcut starter, but since I'm a Raps fan he won't get my vote, DD will.

We're talking about a dude with .200 WS/48, 57 TS%, +15 netRTG, he's been quite a bit better than DD (and all the other guards in the east minus Lowry).

I'm not really trying to indicate that DD is a star or whatever with the above post about his drives. But what it does show is that now that DD is dedicating his offense to driving/slashing a lot more, he is one of -- if not the best -- slashing guards in the league this season. And there isn't really anything unsustainable about it either. Always been a great finisher at the rim, and always been good at scoring in the paint. The more of those shots he trades for long-2s the better.

Let's not derail the discussion by debating whether he's a deserving all-star starter or not, it's irrelevant. The point is that DD is unquestionably an elite slashing guard this season and I'd really like to see that continue.

I still think people fail to realize what seems painfully obvious: All we have really had, for a couple of years - and all we really have right now - is a fantastically hard-working back-court.

Especially when we're weak at the "four" and with JV out (and Stone-hands Biz in), Carroll out (and Ross back in), and Gay, Sweet Lou and Grievis gone ... And we're still racking up wins against really talented (and well-coached) teams ...

DeMar is driving and dishing (and scoring and winning) now. Giving up his body. Taking the heat. Aren't we being a little hard on the guy?

[Snooch]

I still think people fail to realize what seems painfully obvious: All we have really had, for a couple of years - and all we really have right now - is a fantastically hard-working back-court.

Especially when we're weak at the "four" and with JV out (and Stone-hands Biz in), Carroll out (and Ross back in), and Gay, Sweet Lou and Grievis gone ... And we're still racking up wins against really talented (and well-coached) teams ...

DeMar iss driving and dishing and scoring and winning now. He earns what he gets. Aren't we being a little hard on the guy?

no, we arent.

No one is doubting demars individual effort.

Guys trys hard.


But there is more to basketball than trying Hard....if their wasnt JYDs numbers would be hanging from the rafters along with Championships from his years here.

[Wild-ling#1]

no, we arent.

No one is doubting demars individual effort.

Guys trys hard.


But there is more to basketball than trying Hard....if their wasnt JYDs numbers would be hanging from the rafters along with Championships from his years here.

You set aside the stats I put up on the "DeRozan - All Star?" thread without blinking. Second in WS, third in PER, career high in assists (and in the leading group there), second (to Harden) in getting to the line ... and 1st in scoring among SG's in his conference.

How good would he have to be to get anything but a "participation ribbon" from the "High-Court of Snooch"?




(I know - "a lot", right? smh)

[golden]

Ehh, Jimmy Butler is playing a lot better than him. Objectively, Butler should be the clearcut starter, but since I'm a Raps fan he won't get my vote, DD will.

We're talking about a dude with .200 WS/48, 57 TS%, +15 netRTG, he's been quite a bit better than DD (and all the other guards in the east minus Lowry).

I'm not really trying to indicate that DD is a star or whatever with the above post about his drives. But what it does show is that now that DD is dedicating his offense to driving/slashing a lot more, he is one of -- if not the best -- slashing guards in the league this season. And there isn't really anything unsustainable about it either. Always been a great finisher at the rim, and always been good at scoring in the paint. The more of those shots he trades for long-2s the better.

Let's not derail the discussion by debating whether he's a deserving all-star starter or not, it's irrelevant. The point is that DD is unquestionably an elite slashing guard this season and I'd really like to see that continue.

Q:> How the hell did Jimmy Butler get this good? On both sides of the floor.

Yet another one of those "what if" draft scenarios: remember that 2011 1st rounder that BC traded away for JJ?

[Snooch]

You set aside the stats I put up on the "DeRozan - All Star?" thread without blinking. Second in WS, third in PER, career high in assists (and in the leading group there), second (to Harden) in getting to the line ... and 1st in scoring among SG's in his conference.

How good would he have to be to get anything but a "participation ribbon" from the "High-Court of Snooch"?




(I know - "a lot", right? smh)

I will respond even though I find your comments condescending to explain why.

He is withing 1 ppg from being the third highest scoring guard...so that looses weight with me. (going off memory but pretty sure Jimmy is less than 1 point behind and Beal is 1 ish point behind...iirc)

career high in assists when it is less than .5 assists does not impress me, that is more maintaining his average.

The winshare, we will see if he keeps that up.

and Per....right now his FTAs are greatly boosting that, but those have been on the decline and most likely will continue to do so, and with his shooting on par with a majority of his career, he will most likely average out on his per.

And he has the one of the (if not the) highest usage of all the east shooting guards.

I have said many times that Demar gives you numbers, yup. Raw stats are good.

But Anyone lokoing deeper will see some pretty major holes, and that is what prevents him from being considered much more than a raw producer....a high volume/opportunity provider....I cannot see how anyone could argue against that.

[JWash]

Q:> How the hell did Jimmy Butler get this good? On both sides of the floor.

Yet another one of those "what if" draft scenarios: remember that 2011 1st rounder that BC traded away for JJ?

I try not to play the "what if" game with BC picks cause it's really depressing.

In that draft, right after the pick we traded away CoJo was drafted and then Jimmy Butler.

Then the 2nd round pick we traded to Detroit? A few spots later, Parsons.

[Wild-ling#1]

I will respond even though I find your comments condescending to explain why.

He is withing 1 ppg from being the third highest scoring guard...so that looses weight with me. (going off memory but pretty sure Jimmy is less than 1 point behind and Beal is 1 ish point behind...iirc)

career high in assists when it is less than .5 assists does not impress me, that is more maintaining his average.

The winshare, we will see if he keeps that up.

and Per....right now his FTAs are greatly boosting that, but those have been on the decline and most likely will continue to do so, and with his shooting on par with a majority of his career, he will most likely average out on his per.

And he has the one of the (if not the) highest usage of all the east shooting guards.

I have said many times that Demar gives you numbers, yup. Raw stats are good.

But Anyone lokoing deeper will see some pretty major holes, and that is what prevents him from being considered much more than a raw producer....a high volume/opportunity provider....I cannot see how anyone could argue against that.

That's a lot of energy expended saying things like:

"If he shot a little less well, he'd be third" (as if third is bad, anyway) and

"He might not do as well next month" ... (and so on).

My point is that we've really only got two guys. And yet, even with the injuries, we're tied for second in a very tough conference. Those two guys are obviously shouldering heavy load - heavy usage - and quite well. The argument that he'd not a be a "number 1" on option a "true" contending team (with an elite "three" or "four", of course) blithely finesses the fact that we don't have an elite three or four!

If we were to get one, then we'd see. Maybe fairly soon. But for now ...

There are only two guys at the plant, doing twelve-hour shifts ... and they're [I]churning out product[/I. Keeping the company in the "black". No complaints. I think, sure, you put in your call to human resources ... but you thank both guys at the end of every day ...

[special1]

Big positive for DeMar in 2015-16, he's driving way more this year... like WAY more.

He's averaging 12.2 drives per game, which is 2nd in the entire NBA (and his usage hasn't increased, so he's simply just using more of his possessions to drive instead of take bad shots). Shooting an insane 57% on his drives. He's putting up 8.9ppg on drives this season which is 1st in the association. This is where DeRozan needs to keep making his money, as he's absolutely a legitimate threat when attacking the basket. He's also not being selfish off the drive, passing the ball a bit over 1/3 of the time out of his drives, and turning it over on less than 1 out of every 16 drives (so less than once per game).

This slashing mentality is a huge improvement from last season where he only scored 4.9ppg off drives and drove 7.9 times per game, and even significantly over 2013-14 (5.1ppg off drives, 7.4 drives per game).

Would like to see DeRozan exploit his slashing game more and more as he is highly efficient on drives.

Btw "drives" aren't just layups/dunks. It's any possession that starts with a player attacking from 20 feet+ and ends with the player shooting from within 10 feet of the basket. So again, this continues from what I was saying earlier, DeRozan needs to continue trying to do as much damage as possible from within 10 feet of the basket, because he is absolute money from that area.

Driving is soooo overrated..../pink

Prefer players that just chuck 3s and turn it over when they put it on the floor.../pink

Good to see that he's second in the entire NBA in drives per game and 1st overall in Points per game out of drives.

Really it all depends on what type of style you prefer. I like players that can make things happen when the defence takes away open looks.

We can certainly use such a player.... Oh wait, we already have one!





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[Barolt]

The defence doesn't bother taking away open looks from DeRozan. Good defences gladly give him 3s and long 2s. Because he's bad at those.

[Axel]

Good to see that he's second in the entire NBA in drives per game and 1st overall in Points per game out of drives.

Really it all depends on what type of style you prefer. I like players that can make things happen when the defence takes away open looks.

We can certainly use such a player.... Oh wait, we already have one!

I don't think you'll find anyone who would refute that having a player who drives as a good thing, the issue has always been that DD didn't drive as often before this year.

The last 3 years
Drives 7.4, 7.9, 12.2
Pull up 7.7, 8.0, 6.3

He's made an effort to change his game this year (the last 2 years pretty much the same and no data on previous years), which is great.

[Wild-ling#1]

The defence doesn't bother taking away open looks from DeRozan. Good defences gladly give him 3s and long 2s. Because he's bad at those.

But they don't leave him alone for second.

He attracts double and triple-teams. Creates space for others ... and still does more raw "business" than Butler, Wade or Beal. Not his fault that the supporting cast is (especially now) weak.

[special1]

The defence doesn't bother taking away open looks from DeRozan. Good defences gladly give him 3s and long 2s. Because he's bad at those.

How is it possible for him to be leading the association in points off of drives if they're taking away his drives and leaving him open?

I guess he's just so awesome....Unless you can think of another reason.

Demar's strength is his drive game (remember he found Cojo for the game winner vs. Washington).

Remember when posters used to make fun of him for dribbling the ball off his foot?

I guess all that in game practice helps after all.




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[Axel]

How is it possible for him to be leading the association in points off of drives if they're taking away his drives and leaving him open?

I guess he's just so awesome....Unless you can think of another reason.

Demar's strength is his drive game (remember he found Cojo for the game winner vs. Washington).

Remember when posters used to make fun of him for dribbling the ball off his foot?

I guess all that in game practice helps after all.

He is shooting 57% on drives this year after going 44.7% and 50% the 2 previous years; so that likely has something to do with it.

But he did used to dribble the ball off his foot, a fair bit. So those criticisms were perfectly fair. This is why there can never be peace in this thread, people act like because he did something right today that the criticisms of yesterday are no longer valid.

Demar has cut down his loose ball turnovers, which is great to see. He is 2nd in the NBA with offensive fouls on drives at 2.1 per game (Harden has 2.8) - which doesn't reflect on his turnover numbers (but should). But overall, applause, improvement, but let's not act like he played the same way for years now.

[Barolt]

Interestingly, playing around with the tracking part of the nba.com website I happened upon this:

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201942/tracking/passes/

His passing is touted in this thread as being so valuable, but when you look at guys' shooting percentages off his passes, most of them are unimpressive at best. Only 4 players shoot above 41.5% shooting off a DeMar pass. Our 3 centers and Corey Joseph.