Everything Derozan

[slaw]

and the cba completely restricts how much "putting their head together" can even accomplish, cause as it sits right now, Demar and Durant would have to agree to share 22 million in capspace,(not including picks) of which about 15 million is used by demars caphold.

So there would have to be at least 2 gm's putting their heads together as well, so that would make 4 with heads together....and then its just going to start getting weird at that point.

Bye bye Patterson, bye bye demar.....hello KD.

The "as it sits right now" part is the key. If Durant wants to come to Toronto and he wants Derozan and Lowry to stay, "it" will "sit" however it needs to in order for that to happen. What the mechanics of that would look like I do not know but there would be a way. There always is.

[Wild-ling#1]

The "as it sits right now" part is the key. If Durant wants to come to Toronto and he wants Derozan and Lowry to stay, "it" will "sit" however it needs to in order for that to happen. What the mechanics of that would look like I do not know but there would be a way. There always is.

I, for one, am very happy about the fact that the players are taking over the game. This doesn't mean that I'm hostile to all owners - I think some of them really love the game and bring resources and expertise to bear.

But while Michael Jordan was key to "upping" the financial potentials of the players, I feel LeBron has unlocked their powers of self-determination. They're less like cattle, now, and more like elite performers. The Clippers fiasco was one sense of seeing how the players personhood and dignity can be at stake here ... and how far they - and we - have come.

There's so much money involved, though, that ... well, who knows ...

But I agree with your point that if they really want it to happen, they can make it happen.

In this sense, I eagerly await the off-season to find out just what DeMar really thinks of all this, what kind of guy he is ... and to find out how valuable he is to his peers (in addition to how valuable to Masai and on the open market).

[Snooch]

The "as it sits right now" part is the key. If Durant wants to come to Toronto and he wants Derozan and Lowry to stay, "it" will "sit" however it needs to in order for that to happen. What the mechanics of that would look like I do not know but there would be a way. There always is.

it would be a very difficult hurdle to jump.

But yeah, anything is possible.

Far more reasonable to assume that Durant would want more fitting pieces that contribute to a better stronger more complete hole as opposed to having to have a gm jump through hurdles that the rest of the league knows have been laid out in front of him

[Snooch]

I, for one, am very happy about the fact that the players are taking over the game. This doesn't mean that I'm hostile to all owners - I think some of them really love the game and bring resources and expertise to bear.

But while Michael Jordan was key to "upping" the financial potentials of the players, I feel LeBron has unlocked their powers of self-determination. They're less like cattle, now, and more like elite performers. The Clippers fiasco was one sense of seeing how the players personhood and dignity can be at stake here ... and how far they - and we - have come.

There's so much money involved, though, that ... well, who knows ...

But I agree with your point that if they really want it to happen, they can make it happen.

In this sense, I eagerly await the off-season to find out just what DeMar really thinks of all this, what kind of guy he is ... and to find out how valuable he is to his peers (in addition to how valuable to Masai and on the open market).

I disagree with players taking over, its a terrible thing.

The price for everything is far too high, everything, and any sort of unionized employee has the potential to cripple industry. Yes, unions are needed to prevent unfair treatment from owners, but the union can also treat owners unfairly.

Players need to remember that owners can lock the doors, and that is it. done

[Axel]

Players need to remember that owners can lock the doors, and that is it. done

Haven't heard as much chatter about the potential lock out since the new Union boss took over.

Could be very bad for the Raps if it ruins the fan momentum gained with the playoffs and all star game.

[Wild-ling#1]

I disagree with players taking over, its a terrible thing.

The price for everything is far too high, everything, and any sort of unionized employee has the potential to cripple industry. Yes, unions are needed to prevent unfair treatment from owners, but the union can also treat owners unfairly.

Players need to remember that owners can lock the doors, and that is it. done

Well ...

I just think (your support for unions notwithstanding) you may have unresolved issues with capitalism, itself.

(I think this might be true of anyone who is thinks players salaries are too high - ... but who thinks, for example, the C.E.O. of Goldman-Sachs deserves what she/he gets. For the record, I think capitalism is both very useful ... but also significantly and regularly distorts people's worth.)

[S.R.]

Interesting slightly off-topic discussion (it does relate to DeMar getting paid next summer): I also think it's good that the players are discovering a new level of "self-determination" as Wild-ling put it.

Nobody goes to the games to watch the owners. The players generate the revenue - they ARE the product. The fans are the idiots willing to pay exorbitant prices for tickets, merch, satellite subscriptions, etc. That generates billions of dollars of revenue which is going into somebody's pocket. Generally the players get about half of it - which is the minimum of what it should be.

Owners make boatloads of money off NBA teams, at the very least when they flip the franchise and sell it to somebody else, but also when they screw over local municipalities and tax payers (you!) for hundreds of millions of dollars to subsidize stadiums/arenas. How do you feel about subsidizing the profitable capital ventures of billionaires? Those taxes come out of your pocket. I have no sympathy, though I have plenty of respect, for billionaire owners who will end up pocketing every dollar of profit that the players do not.

Meanwhile, players used to get stuck with shitty franchises who couldn't put a proper team together (LBJ left a freaking lottery team behind in Cleveland when he went to Miami - they had 7 years to build around him and they managed to assemble a lottery team's worth of role players). With a little more ability for players to determine their own fates and shorter contracts, a positive pressure is put on franchises to perform and assemble capable rosters. I think it's a good thing.

[JWash]

I believe that if Masai got an indication in the offseason that in order to re-sign DeRozan he would need to pay him an amount that either a.) marginalizes his worth as an asset b.) he is simply not worth or c.) makes him un-tradeable, he would have dealt him in advance.

[JWash]

The "as it sits right now" part is the key. If Durant wants to come to Toronto and he wants Derozan and Lowry to stay, "it" will "sit" however it needs to in order for that to happen. What the mechanics of that would look like I do not know but there would be a way. There always is.

I think this is the likely scenario. If Durant comes here I presume he'd want to play with Lowry and DD (branded and possibly pitched as the best backcourt "you've ever played with" to KD as well as the "best backcourt this side of Curry/Thompson"). Those are the all-stars on the team, those are the names guys around the league recognize as weapons out there on the court. I really don't see how pitching a 30 year old DeMarre Carroll to Durant as his running mate is going to be very successful (especially when you're also trying to explain why one of the two players on the team he's very familiar with as the face of the team isn't coming back).

It's not a complicated fix to get Durant here AND bring back DeRozan. Could sign and trade Ross/Carroll in exchange for KD or Ross+2Pat+Prospects. Most likely, if KD is coming he wants to play with Lowry and DD and Masai will make the moves necessary to make that happen. When it comes to signing arguably the most lethal, versatile scoring machine we've ever seen on an NBA court, you don't start sweating buckets over Delon Wright and Norman Powell or whether or not you have a good stretch 4, you make whatever needs to be done happen to get that star what he wants/needs.

Idk if anyone remembers, but Masai did plant a little seed of goodwill with OKC last offseason by trading for Ridnour which helped them create a TPE and dodge the luxury tax FWIW.

[JWash]

it would be a very difficult hurdle to jump.

But yeah, anything is possible.

Far more reasonable to assume that Durant would want more fitting pieces that contribute to a better stronger more complete hole as opposed to having to have a gm jump through hurdles that the rest of the league knows have been laid out in front of him

It is really not that difficult.

There are many situations in which teams have moved players under contract in order to free up space or sign and trade for free agents. We have Masai who flipped Bargs' garbage contract and production for a lottery pick. How would he not be able to deal actually useful players on much more reasonable deals like Ross, Carroll, 2Pat, etc for example? Especially considering that teams around the league are going to need to hit the cap floor $81M and might be amenable to acquiring players who are on more friendly deals signed prior to the cap boom to fill roster holes (especially if it's hardly going to cost them anything asset wise), rather than going out and splashing money on similar role players.

However I cannot remember any situation in which a team allowed an all-star caliber player to walk and followed that up by signing a superstar.

[Snooch]

It is really not that difficult.

There are many situations in which teams have moved players under contract in order to free up space or sign and trade for free agents. We have Masai who flipped Bargs' garbage contract and production for a lottery pick. How would he not be able to deal actually useful players on much more reasonable deals like Ross, Carroll, 2Pat, etc for example? Especially considering that teams around the league are going to need to hit the cap floor $81M and might be amenable to acquiring players who are on more friendly deals signed prior to the cap boom to fill roster holes (especially if it's hardly going to cost them anything asset wise), rather than going out and splashing money on similar role players.

However I cannot remember any situation in which a team allowed an all-star caliber player to walk and followed that up by signing a superstar.

Yeah, its easily 135% possible as evidenced by the past situations in which a team needed to shed in excess of 20 million dollars without taking back a single cent.

cause you know, bargnani,

and the spurs shed an 8 million dollar contract, so its a given then that MAssai can do that 3 times in one offseason .....

[psrs1]

Yeah, its easily 135% possible as evidenced by the past situations in which a team needed to shed in excess of 20 million dollars without taking back a single cent.

cause you know, bargnani,

and the spurs shed an 8 million dollar contract, so its a given then that MAssai can do that 3 times in one offseason .....

What is the significance of the pink post?

[Snooch]

What is the significance of the pink post?

sarcasm

[DanH]

Yes, there are loads of ways to get Durant while keeping DD. They pretty much all (except the most fantastical and unrealistic) require us to operate over the cap, in which case how much DD signs for is largely irrelevant, as we should be well clear of the tax threshold anyway.

Which was my point with my response to Joey. If Durant wants to come here, nothing DD does outside of leaving will change the team's ability to get him.

[JWash]

Yes, there are loads of ways to get Durant while keeping DD. They pretty much all (except the most fantastical and unrealistic) require us to operate over the cap, in which case how much DD signs for is largely irrelevant, as we should be well clear of the tax threshold anyway.

Which was my point with my response to Joey. If Durant wants to come here, nothing DD does outside of leaving will change the team's ability to get him.

My post wasn't meant to be in line with Joey's, just pointing out that there are ways for us to get DD while keeping KD and that I believe that will both be KD's (if he wants to come here) and Masai's first choice/preference.