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  • Superjudge wrote: View Post
    I agree, because when I played, I got beat one on one a lot, and wasn't the fastest, but I was a defensive player.
    Found it. What a gem.

    I like reading your thoughts on basketball about as much as I like listening to a virgin talking about all the fucking he's doing

    Comment


    • Huh? He ranks 33rd in DRPM among C's. In any case, he is a slight positive on that end by that statistic, and while he can indeed use work defensively, his on-off numbers are clearly very misleading.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

      Comment


      • Watch games. How many games have the Raptors fallen behind because JV was bad offensively our defensively and how often were they trailing because the guards couldn't score. Except for a handful of games when JV hurt his hand he doesn't impact the game much. Also, how many possession look like garbage because of rebounding. The Raptors problems were no passing, terrible shots, guard penetration and rebounding. These weren't caused by JV

        Comment


        • Superjudge wrote: View Post
          hahahaha ok bud.

          I found this piece of remedial writing for you because honestly, I hate typing...and typing for guys like you even more....

          http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...p-young-talent
          A significant part of your rants have been that it is all on the young guys to improve their game. That they will get playing time if they simply improve in their weak areas. That they will play when they deserve to play. In this link you are referencing an article that lauds the Spurs because they take responsibility for young players development, and have the staff to work with the players in terms of their mechanics. So in essence in each case of their young improving players "...San Antonio found a talent, improved that talent and found a new use for that talent and then they can." This sounds a lot like a team developing players and putting them into a system that allows them to succeed.

          The only part of the article that agrees with your past arguments is that the Spurs don't simply force feed players minutes in some blind hope that playing time will improve them. Well, the Raps don't do that, but nowhere do I see evidence of them changing anything about the way they play or evidence of the improved play of their players. And the article referenced certainly does not put it simply on the players to get better. It celebrates the Team's efforts to make improvement happen.

          Comment


          • ROYAL JELLY THEORY at work.


            Puffer wrote: View Post
            A significant part of your rants have been that it is all on the young guys to improve their game. That they will get playing time if they simply improve in their weak areas. That they will play when they deserve to play. In this link you are referencing an article that lauds the Spurs because they take responsibility for young players development, and have the staff to work with the players in terms of their mechanics. So in essence in each case of their young improving players "...San Antonio found a talent, improved that talent and found a new use for that talent and then they can." This sounds a lot like a team developing players and putting them into a system that allows them to succeed.

            The only part of the article that agrees with your past arguments is that the Spurs don't simply force feed players minutes in some blind hope that playing time will improve them. Well, the Raps don't do that, but nowhere do I see evidence of them changing anything about the way they play or evidence of the improved play of their players. And the article referenced certainly does not put it simply on the players to get better. It celebrates the Team's efforts to make improvement happen.

            Comment


            • Superjudge wrote: View Post
              HA. he flashes well, and he presents well, but his timing is fucking robotic.

              I'll agree though, he can do it.

              You guys wanna attack me and im only pointing out obvious and simple realities as they are now. JV, I think anyhow, is moving in a good direction.... but, and this isn't something you can really argue, he isn't being held back by anyone... this notion that management and coaching are against JV is simply silly and unfounded.
              He scores 1.12 points per possession as the roll man. Good for 78th percentile and better than dirk, Kanter, mosgov, Lopez, Gobert, bosh, Duncan, vucevic, Marc Gasol, gortat, horford, cousins, favors, Jefferson, bogut, Monroe, pau, griffin, ibaka, west.


              Most definitely he is held back by Casey and teammates. The guards look to pass as last resort and fail to give the ball in prime position. They are horrible post feeders. Casey runs offense through most inefficient options as a gameplan ignoring more efficient and productive delegating them to random play calls or a la "Bill Cartwright" beginning of game and to start 2nd half touch.

              Comment


              • You will never, and have never seen a pick and roll run in volume and you know it. Add to that, an NBA defence will take how long to adjust to that game if your big can't pop and shoot?

                Listen, I can only say this shit so many times then its a waste of time. You guys cherry pick small parts of posts and ignore the entirety of the message, seemingly just to argue.

                The sentiment on this forum is that EVERYTHING bad with Toronto starts and ends with Casey. Its sad, and simply inaccurate. When we look at JV, people act as if this guy is this super talent that is being purposely held back, or somehow having his chances at greatness diminished by a GM, Coach, assistants, a trainer and 12 teammates that simply don't understand the game enough to maximize his game.

                sometimes. the player himself just isnt good enough yet.

                the guards look to pass as a last resort because when they do pass, he fumbles and bumble sit around, never passes out effectively, turns it over, etc. Players are ruthless that way and you know it. You can either be realistic, or you can look for little mirages of injustice.... I prefer reality.

                I don't even dislike JV, I think he's a baddass. I also think he will continue to get better, and is on course. I just think you guys are ridiculous.

                Comment


                • Puffer wrote: View Post
                  A significant part of your rants have been that it is all on the young guys to improve their game. That they will get playing time if they simply improve in their weak areas. That they will play when they deserve to play. In this link you are referencing an article that lauds the Spurs because they take responsibility for young players development, and have the staff to work with the players in terms of their mechanics. So in essence in each case of their young improving players "...San Antonio found a talent, improved that talent and found a new use for that talent and then they can." This sounds a lot like a team developing players and putting them into a system that allows them to succeed.

                  The only part of the article that agrees with your past arguments is that the Spurs don't simply force feed players minutes in some blind hope that playing time will improve them. Well, the Raps don't do that, but nowhere do I see evidence of them changing anything about the way they play or evidence of the improved play of their players. And the article referenced certainly does not put it simply on the players to get better. It celebrates the Team's efforts to make improvement happen.
                  I still believe that was a part (and in my opinion a large part) of Bayno, who worked directly with JV, leaving. The Spurs are the model organization and have been for years. The Raptors have just started in that direction and it sucks that they are still working toward that goal, but aren't there yet as you correctly imply.
                  If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

                  Comment


                  • raptors999 wrote: View Post
                    Watch games. How many games have the Raptors fallen behind because JV was bad offensively our defensively and how often were they trailing because the guards couldn't score. Except for a handful of games when JV hurt his hand he doesn't impact the game much. Also, how many possession look like garbage because of rebounding. The Raptors problems were no passing, terrible shots, guard penetration and rebounding. These weren't caused by JV
                    JV was probably the worst passer on the team though. Does this not contribute to our problems with passing??

                    JV fandoms are yelling that the guards ISO and don't pass.....Well guess what JV is the same.

                    But he's 23..... Is starting to sound like an excuse. He should know how to pass the ball by now. This will be his 4th year.

                    I'm really looking for improvement in his passing especially. He doesn't need to be our Joakim Noah, he just needs to be better than this... Much better.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                    Comment


                    • DanH wrote: View Post
                      Huh? He ranks 33rd in DRPM among C's. In any case, he is a slight positive on that end by that statistic, and while he can indeed use work defensively, his on-off numbers are clearly very misleading.
                      He's actually better than 33rd, once you factor in the minutes. About a third of the players ahead of JV play far fewer minutes, i.e. under 20 per game.
                      If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

                      Comment


                      • big boi wrote: View Post
                        Found it. What a gem.

                        I like reading your thoughts on basketball about as much as I like listening to a virgin talking about all the fucking he's doing
                        Comment in reference to a players ability to defense not directly connected to foot speed. Used myself as an example because I had average foots peed, but managed to be a very good defensive player. And yes, at the College level, average foot speed, as a guard, will get ya burnt one on one. Its not avoidable. You counter that with brains and effort. deny the ball aggressively, and think your way through stops.... you anticipate, read plays and get hands in lanes, deflect, steal, disrupt. For me I had a bit of an advantage because I could back off a guy and take drive way, I have good anticipation and a 41" vert so i could contest very well..... thats what saved my in a lot of situations. JV has the length to do the same...once he gets his head cleared up.....that takes time.

                        You maybe don't agree, I don't care, i have experienced it. a lot of great defence isn't highlite specific, it isn't glamourous.... its systematic however and through the course of the game adds up if a defender stays relentless and focused.

                        Comment in reference to how JV can make huge strides in his defensive rating once he learns the game and becomes more mentally aware because lets face it, he is never going to be quick...but then neither is Marc Gasol.... and what did he win again????

                        Not sure if this was a gem, but its all I was really saying, and really, its not that complicated.

                        Comment


                        • special1 wrote: View Post
                          JV was probably the worst passer on the team though. Does this not contribute to our problems with passing??

                          JV fandoms are yelling that the guards ISO and don't pass.....Well guess what JV is the same.

                          But he's 23..... Is starting to sound like an excuse. He should know how to pass the ball by now. This will be his 4th year.

                          I'm really looking for improvement in his passing especially. He doesn't need to be our Joakim Noah, he just needs to be better than this... Much better.


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                          Far more important that guards are willing and able passers than a C. I've been pointing out JV's inability to pass effectively out of the double team for a while, but with his improvement on not turning the ball over, it doesn't cost the team a lot. At least he's pretty well at the point that he will just kick it back to the outlet instead of regularly attempting to force the issue. Our guards and especially DD too often force the issue.
                          If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

                          Comment


                          • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                            I still believe that was a part (and in my opinion a large part) of Bayno, who worked directly with JV, leaving. The Spurs are the model organization and have been for years. The Raptors have just started in that direction and it sucks that they are still working toward that goal, but aren't there yet as you correctly imply.
                            Great post, and thanks for getting why i posted that.
                            MU arrived to help Casey, and they have what I think is a good plan. It starts in management, player development etc. Guys here are ignoring all that conveniently it seems and then throwing blame for a guy not being a star, at the coaches and teammates. Toronto is starting to finally right the ship, but it takes time.... and JV, he's young, but he is also 5 pro years in, so he has to start showing some mental progress. I really believe the next 2 years will be accelerated growth years for him...but to look at the last two years, and say he was who he was because of how he was treated..... thats simply not accurate.

                            He is who he is.... but I think most agree, he's going in the right direction.

                            Comment


                            • Jangles wrote: View Post
                              His stats are either elite or extremely poor. Good arguments for both sides. Worst net rating on the team. Most WS on the team.

                              He looks robotic and at times awkward on the floor. Even so, it would be nice to reduce our starting backcourt'a shots per game by 2 each (both shoot 40%) and give JV those 4 shots.
                              I agree. And art of that for him will be getting to where he is ready to shoot that 15 footer when he's open. He still panics with the ball a little. I'm not worried.... he can shoot, his Ft% shows that..... he just needs a little "Namaste" in his diet hahhaa

                              Comment


                              • PLAYER Front court touches per game Pts per half court touch
                                Kyle Lowry 68.9 0.258
                                DeMar DeRozan 51.2 0.392
                                Grevies Vasquez 49.4 0.191
                                Lou Williams 36.0 0.431
                                Amir Johnson 23.8 0.388
                                Patrick Patterson 22.5 0.356
                                Terrence Ross 20.5 0.479
                                James Johnson 18.3 0.433
                                Jonas Valanciunas 17.2 0.701
                                PsychoT 7.9 0.465

                                From table you can clearly see JV gets fewest number of touches in front court of any rotational player except Hansbrough. However Hansbrough also plays about half the minutes. So JV's involvement is on part with Tyler F*cking Hansbrough. Let that sink in. As that sinks in look at the points per half court touch.

                                However data provided is a little biased obviously because guards are by very nature going to get more touches than bigs. So lets compare to league.

                                His points per half court touch is actually #2 in league among guys who play trailing only Whiteside (0.849) who is a lob machine due to athleticism combined with length. Bigs such as Vucevic, Jefferson, Howard, and Gortat are all in 0.53-0.56 range.


                                Now lets look at number of half court touches other bigs get:

                                Drummond (no post game) 19.7
                                Brook Lopez 25.1
                                Anthony Davis 37.1
                                DeAndre Jordan (no post game) 18.2
                                Kanter 34.6
                                Pekovic 20.7
                                Al Jefferson 29.2
                                Dwight Howard 28.3
                                Vucevic 35.6
                                Gortat 22.7
                                Dirk 33.4
                                Monroe 31.3
                                Cousins 48.7
                                Ibaka 29.2
                                Tyson Chandler 21.4
                                Bosh 45.6
                                Hibbert 23.6
                                Pau Gasol 40.5
                                Dieng 23.9
                                Marc Gasol 45.0
                                Z-Bo 34.0


                                So what is the point here? Run the offense through JV? No, not quite. He isn't a superstar. But get him involved with some touches and get him the ball when he presents in or around the key. He often doesn't do his part to hold his position but there are also many times when he has the position and the pass either never comes or it is *fake*pump*fake*pump*pass*.

                                I would suggest, given his skill set and production, he should be somewhere in the 25-30 range which would be similar to Dieng/Brook Lopez to Al Jefferson/Monroe. From there he would be a threat to be doubled and he would absolutely need to work on his passing...but that is something that should have been a focus of development the last 2 seasons when the Raps were trying to win all those super important regular season games.

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