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  • Paying respects to a supposed deity.

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    • Maury wrote: View Post
      Yeh but the problem with starting horford at centre is your team ends up being a really bad rebounding team. He would be far more effective as a power forward next to a guy like JV if you ask me. Thompson is an outlier in that he's an exceptional rebounder for his size and can out hustle most guys, but he can't out rebound JV. Thompson can't defend any guards in space either (basically no bigs can, let alone centres) so what's the point? He can dominate the glass against other weak centres? Sure, but when we come in to town, we aren't losing the rebounding battle if we start JV, so then what are they getting out of starting Thompson? Nothing if you ask me. If JV was on Cleveland he would be starting. If JV was on Boston he would be starting. JV is valuable and you guys are wrong saying we should bench him or dump him. His rebounding is exceptionally valuable and when given opportunity is a good offensive option. He really isn't that much worse a defender than TT either.
      Raptors only ranked a couple spots ahead of the Celtics last year. I believe Raptors were ranked 22nd and Celtics 25th. Raptors weren't a great rebounding team to begin with....

      Also TT does pretty good job at switching out. He just as good as Ibaka in that scenario.

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      Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Thu Jul 20th, 2017, 12:13 AM.
      @Chr1st1anL

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      • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
        Raptors only ranked a couple spots ahead of the Celtics last year. I believe Raptors were ranked 22nd and Celtics 25th. Raptors weren't a great rebounding team to begin with....

        Also TT does pretty good job at switching out. He just as good as Ibaka in that scenario.

        Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
        Overall Boston was 27 ...Raps were 18...Raps a material 30% better. At 18 it makes them league average..not poor. Could they be better ..sure.
        Boston also traded or waived/renounced 3 of their top 5 rebounders in Bradley, Olynyk, Amir.
        Hayward will fill some of that void as will Baynes ...but it's going to be an issue for the Chowderheads.

        The trade of Bradley is going to bite hard. Really hard. Bradley gave them some of the best on ball perimeter defence league wide..39% 3 point shooting and believe it or not over 6 boards a game from box outs. That's not going to be replaced this year.

        Tatum is good but he is a rookie and his next pass may be his first. He makes DD look like John Stockton.
        Last edited by Demographic Shift; Thu Jul 20th, 2017, 10:58 AM. Reason: Had a look at chowders individual contributors on the glass . Bradley tied for first

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        • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
          Overall Boston was 27 ...Raps were 18...Raps a material 30% better. At 18 it makes them league average..not poor. Could they be better ..sure.
          Boston also traded or waived/renounced 3 of their top 5 rebounders in Bradley, Olynyk, Amir.
          Hayward will fill some of that void as will Baynes ...but it's going to be an issue for the Chowderheads.
          Oh, alright. I think I was quoting defensive rebounding numbers.

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          @Chr1st1anL

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          • http://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/...REB_PCT&dir=-1

            REB%
            TOR - 50.7% #8
            BOS - 48.5% #27

            DREB%
            TOR - 76.3% #16
            BOS - 75.3% #27

            OREB%
            TOR - 25.0% #8
            BOS - 21.2% #25

            It's pretty crazy how slim the margins are but over a season they add up.
            Two beer away from being two beers away.

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            • Casey mentioned in his presser that he wants to use JV as a post passer out of pick and roll situations. That's interesting especially if Jonas has been working on his passing. Seems like a job similar to what Mason Plumlee and Jokic do or even Green when he's playing the 5 for the Warriors.

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              • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                Oh, alright. I think I was quoting defensive rebounding numbers.

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                i think you were quoting rectally-derived numbers.

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                • KHD wrote: View Post
                  i think you were quoting rectally-derived numbers.
                  Always so mature

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                  @Chr1st1anL

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                  • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                    Casey mentioned in his presser that he wants to use JV as a post passer out of pick and roll situations. That's interesting especially if Jonas has been working on his passing. Seems like a job similar to what Mason Plumlee and Jokic do or even Green when he's playing the 5 for the Warriors.
                    He used the term playmaking, IIRC, and Casey has the tendency to use that term not just for passing, but being a decision maker on the play - so he includes scoring when he says playmaking. It's definitely a good sign - hitting JV on the roll, then either him scoring or (with work and reps) developing the awareness of when to hit the wing with a pass, or stop for the short jumper/look for a cutter.

                    I believe Casey also said that they are hoping to have better spacing from the 4-spot, specifically referencing getting Ibaka more comfortable in that role. Which makes sense.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                      Casey mentioned in his presser that he wants to use JV as a post passer out of pick and roll situations. That's interesting especially if Jonas has been working on his passing. Seems like a job similar to what Mason Plumlee and Jokic do or even Green when he's playing the 5 for the Warriors.
                      JV has shown good vision at times. It's hard to become an instinctive passer when:
                      a) you get very little in-game opportunity to practice that role;
                      b) plays are not drawn up to practice that role, even when you get your in-game touches;
                      c) your teammates stand around and watch you when you get your in-game touches.

                      I'm not saying JV is a PG in a C's body, but I do think he has the potential to be effective, especially if the team actually runs plays with some off-ball movement (could that be considered a culture change?).

                      I can picture this now... DeRozan works in ISO to draw a double-team, then swings the ball to Lowry, who runs a P&R with JV. As that is happening, Miles is moving from the strong side (which had been the weak side when DeRozan had the ball) to the weak side, and Ibaka sets a nasty block in the low-post, giving JV a wide open man in the weak side corner. Brings a tear to my eye...

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                      • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                        JV has shown good vision at times. It's hard to become an instinctive passer when:
                        a) you get very little in-game opportunity to practice that role;
                        b) plays are not drawn up to practice that role, even when you get your in-game touches;
                        c) your teammates stand around and watch you when you get your in-game touches.

                        I'm not saying JV is a PG in a C's body, but I do think he has the potential to be effective, especially if the team actually runs plays with some off-ball movement (could that be considered a culture change?).

                        I can picture this now... DeRozan works in ISO to draw a double-team, then swings the ball to Lowry, who runs a P&R with JV. As that is happening, Miles is moving from the strong side (which had been the weak side when DeRozan had the ball) to the weak side, and Ibaka sets a nasty block in the low-post, giving JV a wide open man in the weak side corner. Brings a tear to my eye...
                        probably more movement than we had all of last year combined.

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                        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                          Always so mature

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                          at least i'm not actively spreading disinformation

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                          • KHD wrote: View Post
                            probably more movement than we had all of last year combined.
                            I don't mind Lowry/DeRozan working in ISO, as long as it's done with a purpose, beyond just wasting time to get their own shot off. That is not a knock against the players, but rather the coach. There's no doubt that both players are highly skilled, and they've shown the ability to be highly effective catalysts for the offense and facilitators for their teammates. The Raptors just need to do more of that, which requires more x's & o's type coaching than Casey's "give it to Will" approach.

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                            • KHD wrote: View Post
                              at least i'm not actively spreading disinformation
                              Seriously how old are you? I said "I belive" didn't say I was certain. Sorry for being 4 off the raps and 2 off the celtics. Point is both teams are below average rebounding teams. JV coming of the bench or starting isnt going to change that. I have life, so sorry if I don't know the raps stats by heart.

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                              @Chr1st1anL

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                              • This is really easy - you generally start your 5 best players, and JV will be starting. As has been mentioned a bunch of times, he's still going to be a 25 mpg player who doesn't finish the game most of the time, a usage pattern that actually fits with most of the league, making the "fit" arguments a bit weird imho.

                                Siakam and Poeltl are not ready to supplant JV. They're second year players who are going to have opportunity this year, but they still have to play their way into bigger roles.

                                Kanter is a weird anecdote to use - a talented offensive player, he's always been borderline starter talent, he's only been a full time starter one season in his career. He's been a bench player otherwise in both OKC and Utah. And Steven Adams wasn't handed playing time over Kanter like is being proposed here for Poeltl/Siakam, Steven Adams played his way into the starting lineup. He earned it. He became a better overall player than Kanter.

                                Sure, you can argue for some benefits of JV being on the bench, which you could argue for any starter who's a good basketball player. Good players will have a positive impact. And yes, a different type of centre likely fits better with the starting lineup, which is presumably why Masai was shopping JV. But those things don't add up to Poeltl/Siakam being players who deserve playing time in front of JV this fall, JV is flat out just still better than both of them.

                                Hopefully Poeltl keeps developing, I'm sure one of the timelines on Masai's whiteboard includes a JV trade with Poeltl stepping into a larger role.
                                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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