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  • golden wrote: View Post

    That’s exactly what I’m talking about. These athletes aren’t Gods... that’s getting too close to idol worship for my liking.

    And that had to be the most embarrassing, hateful Hall of Fame speech we have ever seen from an superstar of Jordan’s stature. Different, yes. In the worst possible way. But if you hold him up as a god, then you’ll find a way to justify anything he does as being a good thing that “makes him what he is”. In your eyes, he has no flaws. Going out of his way to publicly shame a guy like Jerry Krause who got you Phil Jackson, Pippen, Rodman, Grant, etc..., was a good thing?
    Are u kidding me? that was one of the greatest hall of fame speech ever.

    As for Krause, Jerry Krause told Phil Jackson in 1998 "I don't care if you go 82-0, you're not coming back next year". The Bulls dynasty ended because of Krause ego thinking he could win without MJ & Phil Jackson. Well, the Bulls haven't been relevant since MJ and Phil left. They probably would've won 1 or 2 more chips if Krause kept the team together.
    Mamba Mentality

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    • Without seeing a better thread to put this on, has there been any discussion about how the season might return when the time is right? Like will they go straight to playoffs or look to play the remaining games with the season just finishing later than usual? Obviously nothing set it stone however I haven't really seen much said either way.

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      • The Great One wrote: View Post

        Are u kidding me? that was one of the greatest hall of fame speech ever.

        As for Krause, Jerry Krause told Phil Jackson in 1998 "I don't care if you go 82-0, you're not coming back next year". The Bulls dynasty ended because of Krause ego thinking he could win without MJ & Phil Jackson. Well, the Bulls haven't been relevant since MJ and Phil left. They probably would've won 1 or 2 more chips if Krause kept the team together.
        Unfortunately, the "Krause pushed of Phil & MJ" story is great fodder for the public, but it's false. Jordan wanted out. Phil Jackson was the domino that set it in motion and gave Jordan a convenient excuse to get out. Jackson wanted out, too.

        So you want the real story?

        Here's what happened: Jordan burned out.

        Perhaps he may not remember it that way, but both after that posed winning shot against the Utah Jazz in 1998 -- and there was a reason for that pose -- Jordan was telling confidants he would never play again.

        Yes, it's why he did pose. He knew that was the last shot, and that's the way people talked about it then.

        He couldn't stand playing with Scottie Pippen anymore. He was furious at Pippen for again missing a final game of the playoffs, as with the migrane episode of 1990. He was sick of all the injuries, still upset Pippen elected to have surgery just as training camp was to begin and wouldn't rejoin the team until midseason, sticking Jordan with Dennis Rodman. He was sick of Luc Longley and all the dropped passes.


        He was also sick of babying Rodman. Jordan ran into Rodman recently and they talked at length. Later, Jordan confided to a friend he was amazed you could talk to Rodman. Back then, Jordan never did. I remember him saying when he had to talk to Rodman he'd grab him by the temples, plead for Rodman to look him in the eye and then tell Rodman what to do. Jordan said it was how he talked to his eight year old.

        Jordan was sick and tired and burned out, just like in 1993. Perhaps after the lockout he'd reconsider, but Jordan was insistent. That was it. Yes, there was that one-tenth of one percent left, and Jordan exercised it with the Washington Wizards. (And then, as it turned out, everyone but Abe Pollin's accountant wished he hadn't.)

        Phil Jackson was exiting, too, but not because the Bulls pushed. Jackson admits Reinsdorf offered him a long-term deal to remain, but Jackson had this thing about the number of years players would listen to a coach and had set it at seven years with the Bulls. He now was through nine and promised himself he'd leave no matter what. It was only appeals from players that brought him back in 1996. He was determined nothing would change his mind this time
        https://www.espn.com/nba/columns/sto...sam&id=1936782

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        • I dont want to spoil anything but I have to say, It’s hard to say that I feel bad for Pippen, since he still walked away with millions, but man......dude got screwed.

          This doc is amazing. Two episodes in and I already think it might be in the running for best sports documentary series of all time. It exceeded my expectations.

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          • golden wrote: View Post

            Unfortunately, the "Krause pushed of Phil & MJ" story is great fodder for the public, but it's false. Jordan wanted out. Phil Jackson was the domino that set it in motion and gave Jordan a convenient excuse to get out. Jackson wanted out, too.

            https://www.espn.com/nba/columns/sto...sam&id=1936782
            sam smith was a long time mouthpiece for the organization. citing him for objectivity is like reading doug smith and expecting not to get a raptors PR-filter.

            as someone who was a bulls fan and resented him deeply for breaking them up, i tend to side with t-rex's view above. although objectively i recognize that the truth is somewhere in between.

            it is indisbutable that the guy had zero interpersonal skills and alienated the three single most important figures in their dynasty, which was a significant contributing factor in breaking up the team (if not the only one). he also chose kukoc over pippen, whom he screwed over. he also did a good job filling out the rosters of two separate dynasties around MJ.

            anyhow i am really looking forward to this series, mainly in the hopes that it will lessen the amount of people who weren't alive to watch MJ telling me all the reasons lebron is the GOAT. cuz that shit drives me crazy

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            • golden wrote: View Post

              Unfortunately, the "Krause pushed of Phil & MJ" story is great fodder for the public, but it's false. Jordan wanted out. Phil Jackson was the domino that set it in motion and gave Jordan a convenient excuse to get out. Jackson wanted out, too.



              https://www.espn.com/nba/columns/sto...sam&id=1936782
              Sam Smith? c'mon man. Really?
              Mamba Mentality

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              • chris wrote: View Post

                sam smith was a long time mouthpiece for the organization. citing him for objectivity is like reading doug smith and expecting not to get a raptors PR-filter.

                as someone who was a bulls fan and resented him deeply for breaking them up, i tend to side with t-rex's view above. although objectively i recognize that the truth is somewhere in between.

                it is indisbutable that the guy had zero interpersonal skills and alienated the three single most important figures in their dynasty, which was a significant contributing factor in breaking up the team (if not the only one). he also chose kukoc over pippen, whom he screwed over. he also did a good job filling out the rosters of two separate dynasties around MJ.

                anyhow i am really looking forward to this series, mainly in the hopes that it will lessen the amount of people who weren't alive to watch MJ telling me all the reasons lebron is the GOAT. cuz that shit drives me crazy
                People loves to overreact all the time specially when it comes to LeBron, even in this forum. Like when he singlehandedly swept the Raptors 2 years ago...some here were saying "that's why he's the GOAT" Lol.

                LeBron is GREAT but he's not Michael Jordan. Most of these kids argue about LeBron being the greatest, but never saw MJ play. I never seen anybody ever more competitive than Jordan - not even Kobe - Jordan was just a different animal. I'm glad I got to witness him play live when I was a kid.

                Mamba Mentality

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                • chris wrote: View Post

                  sam smith was a long time mouthpiece for the organization. citing him for objectivity is like reading doug smith and expecting not to get a raptors PR-filter.

                  as someone who was a bulls fan and resented him deeply for breaking them up, i tend to side with t-rex's view above. although objectively i recognize that the truth is somewhere in between.

                  it is indisbutable that the guy had zero interpersonal skills and alienated the three single most important figures in their dynasty, which was a significant contributing factor in breaking up the team (if not the only one). he also chose kukoc over pippen, whom he screwed over. he also did a good job filling out the rosters of two separate dynasties around MJ.

                  anyhow i am really looking forward to this series, mainly in the hopes that it will lessen the amount of people who weren't alive to watch MJ telling me all the reasons lebron is the GOAT. cuz that shit drives me crazy
                  Sam Smith was as close to the action as anybody. I have no idea who Jack Silverstein is, but I believe he's some type of Bulls dynasty historian. He's also not buying the "it was all 100% Krause's fault" story for public consumption. Sounds a lot like PJax had a pretty big role in setting the breakup in motion, then MJ/PJax apologists want to admit.

                  https://www.blogabull.com/2017/3/24/...scottie-pippen


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                  • I can't wait to watch the doc tonight. I swear if I someone say, "would Jordan's style of play be effective in today's game" I'm gonna lose it. Someone on The Jump last week mentioned the mid range game and also mentioned DeRozan. I want to remind everyone, that the GREATEST player in the NBA today - Kawhi Leonard - is a mid range scorer. But nobody ever brings his name up because it doesn't fit their narrative. It's always DeRozan.
                    Mamba Mentality

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                    • The Great One wrote: View Post
                      I can't wait to watch the doc tonight. I swear if I someone say, "would Jordan's style of play be effective in today's game" I'm gonna lose it. Someone on The Jump last week mentioned the mid range game and also mentioned DeRozan. I want to remind everyone, that the GREATEST player in the NBA today - Kawhi Leonard - is a mid range scorer. But nobody ever brings his name up because it doesn't fit their narrative. It's always DeRozan.
                      Jordan would have learned to shoot 3s and gotten great at them, just like Kawhi, who wasn't a shooter in college. But even if not, Kobe took way more 3s than MJ but was never very good at them (in fact they're almost identical: Jordan career .327 on 1.7 attempts, Kobe career .329 on 4.1 attempts) but Kobe was still a beast.

                      So yes, Jordan would have shot more 3s, and practiced more 3s, but even at worst he was already as good as Kobe from deep
                      It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                      • golden wrote: View Post

                        Sam Smith was as close to the action as anybody. I have no idea who Jack Silverstein is, but I believe he's some type of Bulls dynasty historian. He's also not buying the "it was all 100% Krause's fault" story for public consumption. Sounds a lot like PJax had a pretty big role in setting the breakup in motion, then MJ/PJax apologists want to admit.

                        https://www.blogabull.com/2017/3/24/...scottie-pippen

                        so is doug smith, but it hasn't stopped him from acting as an apologist for every less-than-competent raptors regime.

                        i remember that blog-a-bull piece. it is closer to the objective middle ground i was alluding to. regardless, the facts i mentioned above remain indisbutable. would phil have softened on his 7 (9) year stance if krause wasn't such an abrasive asshole?

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                        • The Great One wrote: View Post
                          People loves to overreact all the time specially when it comes to LeBron, even in this forum. Like when he singlehandedly swept the Raptors 2 years ago...some here were saying "that's why he's the GOAT" Lol.

                          LeBron is GREAT but he's not Michael Jordan. Most of these kids argue about LeBron being the greatest, but never saw MJ play. I never seen anybody ever more competitive than Jordan - not even Kobe - Jordan was just a different animal. I'm glad I got to witness him play live when I was a kid.
                          KeonClark wrote: View Post

                          Jordan would have learned to shoot 3s and gotten great at them, just like Kawhi, who wasn't a shooter in college. But even if not, Kobe took way more 3s than MJ but was never very good at them (in fact they're almost identical: Jordan career .327 on 1.7 attempts, Kobe career .329 on 4.1 attempts) but Kobe was still a beast.

                          So yes, Jordan would have shot more 3s, and practiced more 3s, but even at worst he was already as good as Kobe from deep
                          totally to both of these. lebron probably has the most complete skill set of any player ever, in addition to an unprecedented size and athleticism combination. but what separates jordan was that he was just a maniac about competition and would do whatever it took to win, as trite as that sounds. did you guys see this great kirk goldsberry piece last week? he came into the league heavily reliant on attacking the basket and left the most dominant jump shooter ever. no doubt he would have a killer 3 if playing today, if he thought it would help them win.

                          lebron does not have the same competitive will. he cares a lot about curating his legacy, no doubt, but would rather do it by teaming up with A-listers than overcoming the competition. and he still at least two chips with more talent.

                          jordan hit his prime and then never lost again.

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                          • Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                            • its hilarious...looks like docu actually made things worse for the argument lol "Jordan played against plumbers"
                              Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                              • MixxAOR wrote: View Post


                                It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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