Everything Gary Trent Jr.

[TrueTorontoFan]

This assumes that Fred is willing to move off ball to balance lineups that have better on-ball advantage creators. Otherwise, a heavy dose of on-ball Fred can actually sub-optimize certain lineups where you'd be better off with a basic floor spacer and another low-USG guy. It allows the better creators to be fully aggressive without worrying about Fred needing to get his touches. Pecking order, and all that.

he already has

[TrueTorontoFan]

Well he has been pretty off ball with Pascal in the lineup. Hes been taking a larger role recently because players have been out.

Thats also another good reason you brought up. He will be better than basically any bench player we get and have. Do you think he'll play off ball as a bench player? Probably not.

which is why the original point I made back in summer was fred off ball was an easier sell than GTJ on the bench. GTJ off the bench may work because you can sell him on the 6man award but still. It is a tough decision

[Mapko]

I get the sense that FVV would have a tough time accepting a bench role even if the money was maxed out

Lets stop this nonsense guys. Fred is NOT going to bench.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Lets stop this nonsense guys. Fred is NOT going to bench.

reread what I have been saying. I was hinting that he won't


better yet read the thing right above your last comment.


that is exactly my point.


FVV would be nice on the bench of course. but at the same time it won't happen. As I stated before you just hope that the coaching staff reduces his minutes so they don't run him into the ground before play off time.

[Yuri Gagarin]

It seems that break was the best thing for fred. He saw how pascal and barnes penetrate down the middle more instead of meandering arcs around the 3 line. Hes been going into the trees more, still getting stuck in there but not as much

[planetmars]

This whole discussion about Fred going to the bench is odd.

I hate it to break it to you but Nurse loves Fred.. likely his favourite player even though a coach shouldn't have one. He runs him out there when he's ill/hurt/sucks, it doesn't matter. He'll play Fred any chance he gets. So even if it was the right move you'd have to fire Nurse first.

Also moving Fred to the bench makes no sense. I don't see how that improves the team. Fred has been great off ball when healthy. He's been okay on ball when not healthy, but not as good. He does a bit too at times and that's why he's flawed. But even if he was coming off the bench he'd take on that alpha mentality and we'd get the worse version of Fred which is not what this team needs. He's also our best volume 3pt shooter. Why put that on the bench when guys like Scottie, Pascal are not 3pt threats. You need Fred's spacing to open up the paint for those two.

Besides, I've seem implications that we play a 5 man bench and guys list the 4 bench players he would play with. Nurse rarely ever does the hockey line up that Casey used to do. There is always at least one or two starters staggered with the bench. It's how guys get to 39-41 mpg. Why is Fred playing with guys like Precious, Chris, Otto and Banton all at the same time - when healthy?

The other thing is that I've seen guys say that Fred wouldn't do it, so it's all moot. Do fans really think Fred is that selfish? Fred has a lot of flaws, but the one thing he's not is a selfish dude. He is the epitome of what it means to be a team player. If he and the team felt it would be better if he came off the bench he would. The fact he came into the season playing off ball and giving it up to Scottie and Pascal shows how unselfish he is - and he's in a contract year.

[TrueTorontoFan]

This whole discussion about Fred going to the bench is odd.

I hate it to break it to you but Nurse loves Fred.. likely his favourite player even though a coach shouldn't have one. He runs him out there when he's ill/hurt/sucks, it doesn't matter. He'll play Fred any chance he gets. So even if it was the right move you'd have to fire Nurse first.

Also moving Fred to the bench makes no sense. I don't see how that improves the team. Fred has been great off ball when healthy. He's been okay on ball when not healthy, but not as good. He does a bit too at times and that's why he's flawed. But even if he was coming off the bench he'd take on that alpha mentality and we'd get the worse version of Fred which is not what this team needs. He's also our best volume 3pt shooter. Why put that on the bench when guys like Scottie, Pascal are not 3pt threats. You need Fred's spacing to open up the paint for those two.

Besides, I've seem implications that we play a 5 man bench and guys list the 4 bench players he would play with. Nurse rarely ever does the hockey line up that Casey used to do. There is always at least one or two starters staggered with the bench. It's how guys get to 39-41 mpg. Why is Fred playing with guys like Precious, Chris, Otto and Banton all at the same time - when healthy?

The other thing is that I've seen guys say that Fred wouldn't do it, so it's all moot. Do fans really think Fred is that selfish? Fred has a lot of flaws, but the one thing he's not is a selfish dude. He is the epitome of what it means to be a team player. If he and the team felt it would be better if he came off the bench he would. The fact he came into the season playing off ball and giving it up to Scottie and Pascal shows how unselfish he is - and he's in a contract year.

Selfish hard to know.. I think he may play conservative and lacks the physical ability to make the same type of passes that someone who is 6'5 or 6'9 could make. I also just worry about his body long term.

[The Claw Reborn]

Selfish hard to know.. I think he may play conservative and lacks the physical ability to make the same type of passes that someone who is 6'5 or 6'9 could make. I also just worry about his body long term.

Hit the nail on the head, low vantage point to see beyond those trees. Interesting though why Lowry is different

[Kagemusha]

Hit the nail on the head, low vantage point to see beyond those trees. Interesting though why Lowry is different

Fred, Kyle and Trae are the same height.
It's a bit more than that

[The Claw Reborn]

Fred, Kyle and Trae are the same height.
It's a bit more than that

It would be unfair though to compare him with Trae like me getting bombarded comparing Trent and Derozan

Can’t point a finger though why there is difficulty passing a lob successfully or driving the ball to the basket without getting stuffed most of the time.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Hit the nail on the head, low vantage point to see beyond those trees. Interesting though why Lowry is different

completely different especially how he would see 5 moves ahead. very special player.

[The Claw Reborn]

completely different especially how he would see 5 moves ahead. very special player.

Would you invest 27 million per or roughly 110 million for four years with an option on year four to a 28th year old player who’s health is iffy and who at most a 6th man in a championship team?

[TrueTorontoFan]

Would you invest 27 million per or roughly 110 million for four years with an option on year four to a 28th year old player who’s health is iffy and who at most a 6th man in a championship team?

if it was lowry yes money well spent

[planetmars]

Selfish hard to know.. I think he may play conservative and lacks the physical ability to make the same type of passes that someone who is 6'5 or 6'9 could make. I also just worry about his body long term.

I don't know why size is important for making passes. There are a lot of short players in the league who were great passers. That's actually been an advantage as they can get into traffic and make a quick pass to a cutter or someone that is open.

Trae, Paul, Ja, Garland, Lowry are all short dudes that can pass the ball like the best of them.

As for breaking down as he gets older.. I mean he's a lot like Lowry who's 36 and still playing / starting for a team. I'd say Kyle has thrown is body even more than Fred when they played the same amount of games.

What this has to do with him starting versus coming off the bench I'm unsure about.

As for "selfish hard to know".. I'm not sure why you don't. What has he demonstrated to make him appear selfish? Even last night he was allowing both Malachi and Scottie to run the plays in the 4th quarter as he sat back in the corner.

[The Claw Reborn]

Health and his offense are badly needed by his team…takes a game or two to get back into rhythm but GTJ can inject some firepower in that starting role.