'21-'22 Roster Construction

[inthepaint]

I would guess it would take alot, and then you gotta wonder if its worth it. Give up too much and we may be no better off than present or you might be spending a couple of offseasons trying to fill out the roster with good complimentary players. I'm pretty low on KAT, and I would guess the starting point would be 2 of pascal, og, fvv and gtjr at least, with a flynn or banton and picks to boot. Seem reasonable?

Pascal, OG, and Fred are all former nba champions in their prime. KAT puts up numbers on a bad team and has won a grand total of 1 playoff game in his 6 year career. If the "starting point" is two of our main guys (who are bordeline all-stars and have playoff experience) plus prospects and picks for a KAT (who's no more than a borderline all-star himself with so-so defence), they can take a hike. We tend to undervalue our guys in trades. I suspect the asking (or at least the actual) would be a lot lower, especially if he's disgruntled there.

I'd do Pascal, flynn and pick for him so we can start Fred-Trent-Scottie-OG-KAT. Even that I'd do reluctantly as Pascal is way better defensively than KAT and we shouldn't be really giving away picks at this stage of team rebuild. I think he'd be a good fit here though, but has to be for the right price, but that price will only normalize and offset the hype around him when he's disgruntled.

[JawsGT]

The perfect player for this team imo is Karl Towns. I know he's not staying in Minny long term so he could be available.. I don't really know what it would take to trade for him. The ONLY untouchable player on this Raptors team is Scottie Barnes.

I would guess it would take alot, and then you gotta wonder if its worth it. Give up too much and we may be no better off than present or you might be spending a couple of offseasons trying to fill out the roster with good complimentary players. I'm pretty low on KAT, and I would guess the starting point would be 2 of pascal, og, fvv and gtjr at least, with a flynn or banton and picks to boot. Seem reasonable?

[The Great One]

The perfect player for this team imo is Karl Towns. I know he's not staying in Minny long term so he could be available.. I don't really know what it would take to trade for him. The ONLY untouchable player on this Raptors team is Scottie Barnes.

[Jclaw]

Great read that touches on some things you know but adds some perspective. Especially some stuff about Precious that might give you some appreciation when he goes 1-9.

[Shredder]

This makes sense, younger guys will always a have longer leash, the question is always "how long", as it's not infinite. I think the key for Achiuwa is understanding that the way to earn a spot is by first doing the fundamental, often non-flashy work that centres are required to do. After you establish that, then you can test the waters and do more individual things on your game to expand it.

He's putting the cart before the horse here a bit and it has hindered him so far. It feels like in Miami he had a very limited role, and when he got here it was lot more freedom, so he went on to try to do everything at once. It's like someone that was hungry for a long a time, suddenly presented with a feast, tried to gobble everything at once, causing an indigestion. Just settle down on the role, and let the game come to you. I'm sure the coaches told him that already, it's now up to him to do it.

The way Masai talked about him early in the season, this kid is going no where. You can see the potential. You can also see his weight doesn't match his frame. He is light currently, but given his frame he should bulk up quite a bit. I think the leash will be long for most of the season. We've done it with so many other players. I do agree that some time down in the 905 could be beneficial.

[inthepaint]

Just listened to Will Lou's interview of Fred VanVleet from a few days ago. Enjoyed the whole thing, as is pretty usual when listening to Fred talk, but one comment line from Fred was pretty good I thought. He was responding to a question about the rookie's development and he said something like "They make mistakes but they are mistakes of being young" meaning that they just need more time and more experience and they will figure it out. That might explain why there is faith in a player like Precious, for example. If I can interpret what he means it would be that the FO and Nurse can see that Precious has some inherent gifts like size, energy, or speed, whatever. In a development year, they are trying to see if more playing time, presumably interspersed with individual one on one review of his mistakes and practice time to correct those mistakes allows him to develop into the player he could be. Chris Boucher's sudden one game reversion to the player we were all amazed by last year could be an example of why they are taking more time than the average fan thinks is reasonable. If you can help that occur, and can bottle that magic, then you have something tangible. It might also be a reflection of how hard it is to find players that are at or above average in this league. Just under 500 players. Half of them are below average (more or less). Simply by replacing your under average players with average or above average players you can improve significantly. I think the old "a rising tide lifts all boats" analogy works. When your team's floor goes up, so does the ceiling.

Considering how much money is invested in the playing personnel, and that losing a few games a year because of a longer leash during the regular season only improves your shot at a better draft pick, and how some guys emerge from nowhere to become very good, it would seem cost effective to be patient with young players. Just my thoughts.

This makes sense, younger guys will always a have longer leash, the question is always "how long", as it's not infinite. I think the key for Achiuwa is understanding that the way to earn a spot is by first doing the fundamental, often non-flashy work that centres are required to do. After you establish that, then you can test the waters and do more individual things on your game to expand it.

He's putting the cart before the horse here a bit and it has hindered him so far. It feels like in Miami he had a very limited role, and when he got here it was lot more freedom, so he went on to try to do everything at once. It's like someone that was hungry for a long a time, suddenly presented with a feast, tried to gobble everything at once, causing an indigestion. Just settle down on the role, and let the game come to you. I'm sure the coaches told him that already, it's now up to him to do it.

[Dvdvideo]

It will be interesting to see if boucher can bounce back consistently. He could be extremely useful off the bench if he rebounds, block shots, and hits open 3's.

[Puffer]

Just listened to Will Lou's interview of Fred VanVleet from a few days ago. Enjoyed the whole thing, as is pretty usual when listening to Fred talk, but one comment line from Fred was pretty good I thought. He was responding to a question about the rookie's development and he said something like "They make mistakes but they are mistakes of being young" meaning that they just need more time and more experience and they will figure it out. That might explain why there is faith in a player like Precious, for example. If I can interpret what he means it would be that the FO and Nurse can see that Precious has some inherent gifts like size, energy, or speed, whatever. In a development year, they are trying to see if more playing time, presumably interspersed with individual one on one review of his mistakes and practice time to correct those mistakes allows him to develop into the player he could be. Chris Boucher's sudden one game reversion to the player we were all amazed by last year could be an example of why they are taking more time than the average fan thinks is reasonable. If you can help that occur, and can bottle that magic, then you have something tangible. It might also be a reflection of how hard it is to find players that are at or above average in this league. Just under 500 players. Half of them are below average (more or less). Simply by replacing your under average players with average or above average players you can improve significantly. I think the old "a rising tide lifts all boats" analogy works. When your team's floor goes up, so does the ceiling.

Considering how much money is invested in the playing personnel, and that losing a few games a year because of a longer leash during the regular season only improves your shot at a better draft pick, and how some guys emerge from nowhere to become very good, it would seem cost effective to be patient with young players. Just my thoughts.

[Puffer]

I don't agree with everything Dan says especially regarding JV. That said, when did he claim to be holier than thou?

When he pointed out mistakes in Claws posts and provided a more correct perspective.

[TrueTorontoFan]

it has to go both ways, no one here is an expert of anything why we are all here. if you are then great….just confused about the hypocrisy 😀

I don't agree with everything Dan says especially regarding JV. That said, when did he claim to be holier than thou?

[The Claw Reborn]

Huh? What has confused you? We are basketball fans, we know what skill sets are valuable to have on a basketball team, we know roughly what the skill sets of our players is... Just because presenting raw data at this point is a largely meaningless exercise without a larger sample that doesn't mean we don't understand the construction of the roster. At least I didn't think so, though you are constantly challenging my optimistic assumptions about whether we as a community of posters can engage in good faith discussions and critical thinking about basketball.

it has to go both ways, no one here is an expert of anything why we are all here. if you are then great….just confused about the hypocrisy 😀

[TrueTorontoFan]

Huh? What has confused you? We are basketball fans, we know what skill sets are valuable to have on a basketball team, we know roughly what the skill sets of our players is... Just because presenting raw data at this point is a largely meaningless exercise without a larger sample that doesn't mean we don't understand the construction of the roster. At least I didn't think so, though you are constantly challenging my optimistic assumptions about whether we as a community of posters can engage in good faith discussions and critical thinking about basketball.

The key here that you outlined is good faith. Unfortunately not everyone engages in that.

[DanH]

Here you are giving these worthy suggestions on how this team can be fix yet you are claiming on another thread that any data about this Raptors is still a very small sample size

I am confused Dan

Huh? What has confused you? We are basketball fans, we know what skill sets are valuable to have on a basketball team, we know roughly what the skill sets of our players is... Just because presenting raw data at this point is a largely meaningless exercise without a larger sample that doesn't mean we don't understand the construction of the roster. At least I didn't think so, though you are constantly challenging my optimistic assumptions about whether we as a community of posters can engage in good faith discussions and critical thinking about basketball.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Who wants bagley again? https://twitter.com/SeanCunningham/s...4zaWL32dYg&s=1

[Puffer]

I usually wait till about 25% of the season to start considering in-season roster moves. That's about 20 games, so 10 more. At the point, you gotta compare the team's record with the realistic expectations for the year that were set in training camp. If they're falling below expectations, become sellers at the deadline; if they're beating, become buyers. if they're right around the expectations, stay the course and be open to moves that make sense either way.

I expected them to be around .500, and I think they'll be around that till the end of this season. There will be some good winning streaks , but there will likely be many duds along the way too, unfortunately. The team is just too young and green and this is a development year trying to organize an offence after losing a historically good, borderline HOF'er point-guard.

It'll come, but the dust needs to settle. We don't know what we have yet collectively, so trade talks seem premature at this time

It's also worth considering they have played all of their games so far with either no Pascal or only 70% Pascal. A guy who is out of breath after the first three minutes is not all there yet. They also had a COVID recovering Birch (widely acknowledged as one of those guys who raises floors without showing big stats, but the plus-minus for him when he is in the game is telling). And missing Yuta is no small thing, then missing Barnes for two games. And how many guys are getting playing time who haven't played in the NBA either before or only minimally?

I don't think you really know what you have with this group until you've played half the season. But I suspect games 21-41 will be significantly better than games 1 - 20.