'21-'22 Roster Construction

[Puffer]

I think we end up in the 6th spot out of the playin game.

I believe this as well. Back half of the season will be better than the first half, and they are still a .500 team.

[Puffer]

...I'm not convinced this is a playoff team yet...

Sums it up perfectly and I think this is key. The Raptors FO and coaching staff don't believe this is a playoff team yet either. I think they are expecting they will have a playoff ready team sometime after mid season. With the average age of the players, there is a strong element of throw them in the fire and let them get reps and learn. Numerous comments from members of this forum about the high BBIQ of many of these guys. And plenty of comments on the ability of the Raptors organization as a developmental cauldron. Well, they are in the process of cooking up their desired combo. The would explain the repeated chances all of the players get. Even if the team has to get into the playoffs through the play-in, because of mistakes made now and dropped games, by April it will be a much different team.

[TrueTorontoFan]

6th seed is really ambitious. Especially if we finish around 41 wins. Just look at previous seasons and at what record a team needed to get to 6th seed. To get to 6th seed they need around 45-47 wins I think. Possibly more.

I am optimistic.

[grindhouse]

I think I am taking this 10 games at a time.
First 10 Barnes and banton are legit.
Second 10, I am guessing the story will be pascal coming back to form.

[planetmars]

I think we end up in the 6th spot out of the playin game.

6th seed is really ambitious. Especially if we finish around 41 wins. Just look at previous seasons and at what record a team needed to get to 6th seed. To get to 6th seed they need around 45-47 wins I think. Possibly more.

[Yuri Gagarin]

I think masai/bobby will definitely have to adjust according to the fan base - ticket sales. A friend of mine has seasons and hes having difficulty selling them for the price of last years. Scottie was a nice shot in the arm but this team lacks the pop that fans will pay big for. 2-6 home record is not going to help at all. You want a win for a $600 night

[TrueTorontoFan]

41 wins (so .500) gets you about the 7-8-9 seed in the East.. so play-in not necessarily playoffs.

I think we end up in the 6th spot out of the playin game.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Good discussion. I'm disappointed in the defence so far. Some really good games but overall we've lacked consistency and effort. Scottie seems to have dialed back the effort, but my theory is he is adjusting to whistle and a few games with early foul trouble has possibly led to reduced intensity. I dont know, but I was suspecting this team to be suffocating offences, and we have seen flashes of that. Maybe its just newer faces getting used to the system. I think we double too much, given the quality of defenders, and we usually pay for that. The system requires alot of effort, with the constant recovering and closing out on shooters.

So I wonder if the more egalitarian offence is somewhat preventing our defence from really dialing in, as everyone on the floor is exerting alot of energy on both sides of the floor? If thats the case, maybe a top tier scorer that lacks defensively may not be such a bad thing for this team, as it might realign players into more defined roles on both sides of the floor, where players can more easily manage their energy and effort. There has been games where OG has worked like a damn dog on both sides of the floor, Fred too and GTJr to a lesser extent. Pascals return should help mitigate this, but ya gotta wonder the toll it can take over stretch of games, cause there have been times when guys just dont seem to have their legs under them when shooting.

Still early in the season and I'd like to see this percolate a little more. Personally, I think we really need to increase Scottie's usage and go from there. I know i like the idea of having 4 or 5 guys on the floor that can get 20 or so a night, but it really comes down to shot quality and how hard it is to get those high quality looks. If we have to put a lot of effort into generating quality looks, there might not be enough left in the tank to execute a switch heavy, hedge and recover defensive scheme effectively over the course of a game. Hence the idea of a Beal or KAT etc. But Barnes may be the answer too, just too soon to tell.

I don't think going to heliocentrism would help unless you wanted to dial back that individuals contribution on the defensive end. Not a great idea. we have had just a few games that I will call "outlier games where the we have had teams score more than 115 points on us (twice to be exact). In general the defense has actually been fine. Against detroit our defence was lackluster and we got 127 points hung on us. So that bumps the numbers up to 107+ ... If you take that game out we are still very very solid (I have to run the numbers but around top 100. It is an interesting idea though but I would much rather stick with heliocentrism. Scottie does need to be more aggressive but his usage is hovering around 20%. That said we have some people who are.... frankly ball hogs.


GTJ is one example His defence is improved but there are possessions where he still can only see his own shot and looks off OG, Scottie, and Siakam. Precious in transition has had a number of times where he has not looked to get others involved, and boucher. Boucher's has been the most egregious because he doesn't provide a ton else the majority of games. Doesn't play defence well, only looks for his own shot, can't pass, and is turnover prone as well.

Precious is an issue because he can't score around the basket AND doesn't ever pass either. He should probably take half the amount of shots he does. If you cut back precious' shots, by 3-5, GTJ's down by 3-4, and boucher doesn't ever shoot. You have just created 10+ more shots a game that Barnes can take RIGHT THERE. That is part of the problem.

[planetmars]

we are playing at the level of a 500 team. that is playoff bound numbers

41 wins (so .500) gets you about the 7-8-9 seed in the East.. so play-in not necessarily playoffs.

[JawsGT]

Good discussion. I'm disappointed in the defence so far. Some really good games but overall we've lacked consistency and effort. Scottie seems to have dialed back the effort, but my theory is he is adjusting to whistle and a few games with early foul trouble has possibly led to reduced intensity. I dont know, but I was suspecting this team to be suffocating offences, and we have seen flashes of that. Maybe its just newer faces getting used to the system. I think we double too much, given the quality of defenders, and we usually pay for that. The system requires alot of effort, with the constant recovering and closing out on shooters.

So I wonder if the more egalitarian offence is somewhat preventing our defence from really dialing in, as everyone on the floor is exerting alot of energy on both sides of the floor? If thats the case, maybe a top tier scorer that lacks defensively may not be such a bad thing for this team, as it might realign players into more defined roles on both sides of the floor, where players can more easily manage their energy and effort. There has been games where OG has worked like a damn dog on both sides of the floor, Fred too and GTJr to a lesser extent. Pascals return should help mitigate this, but ya gotta wonder the toll it can take over stretch of games, cause there have been times when guys just dont seem to have their legs under them when shooting.

Still early in the season and I'd like to see this percolate a little more. Personally, I think we really need to increase Scottie's usage and go from there. I know i like the idea of having 4 or 5 guys on the floor that can get 20 or so a night, but it really comes down to shot quality and how hard it is to get those high quality looks. If we have to put a lot of effort into generating quality looks, there might not be enough left in the tank to execute a switch heavy, hedge and recover defensive scheme effectively over the course of a game. Hence the idea of a Beal or KAT etc. But Barnes may be the answer too, just too soon to tell.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I think the saying applies to this version of the Raptors that are so reliant on rotations and helping the helper. The teams in that top 5 right now are all veteran teams that have been together for a bit (except Chi), there isn't much of a feeling out process needed there unlike the Raps that are starting two new, young players...3 prior to Siakam returning.

It's still early and some notable defenses like Milwaukee and Utah aren't on the list. Chicago....I'd be impressed if they were in the top 5 by end of season. Getting a DeMar lead team to be a top defense is something Casey, Nick and Pop could not achieve. Hats off to Chicago if they can.

Jokic and Curry are good defenders aren't they?

Curry has made himself into an above average defender but it is certainly not his strength.

[TrueTorontoFan]

That's a pretty big gamble in a season where there is so much parity. I'm not convinced this is a playoff team yet. At best a play-in team, and that could be playing roulette. Hope I'm wrong though.

we are playing at the level of a 500 team. that is playoff bound numbers

[inthepaint]

That's a pretty big gamble in a season where there is so much parity. I'm not convinced this is a playoff team yet. At best a play-in team, and that could be playing roulette. Hope I'm wrong though.

Yeah I'm on that camp too. It's fine to do something tailored to playofffs, but first we gotta make it. When Nick became coach the team was a perennial playoff team, but falling short there. His mandate/philosophy was prioritize stuff that works in the post-season (rightfully so). We won the title and it worked great. The team now is on a different stage. We didn't make the playoffs last year - yes, covid, tampa, i get it - but that doesn't make it a given we'll make it this year. Lots of parity and good teams out there. I'm hopeful it will work, but it's new, so we gotta wait and see.

[planetmars]

I suspect the reason, as usual with Nick Nurse, is he doesn't give a hot damn whether it works over 82 games, but whether it can be a game changer for the team over 16 games. Develop a system that, if working perfectly, can strangle an opposing playoff team's offence for 4 of 7 games. Whether this system can do that we have yet to see, but that I think is the answer.

That's a pretty big gamble in a season where there is so much parity. I'm not convinced this is a playoff team yet. At best a play-in team, and that could be playing roulette. Hope I'm wrong though.

[inthepaint]

I don't look at it like the Raps are too obsessed with defense. I can guarantee Masai and Bobby don't make decisions based on obsessions or phobia for that matter.

I look at it like they are not afraid to try new things (set the trend, not follow it) with an underlying attempt to get around what has been the huge obstacle of attracting star players in free agency. They are attempting to go a route that doesn't require a superstar to win an NBA championship and they doubled down on that by picking Scottie in the draft instead of a bucket-getter.

Obviously I could be wrong, but I don't think the Raps would bite on a trade offer for a Beal, Lillard or KAT type player even if it was on the table.

I was referring to the fanbase more so than management. Masai/bobby will beat to their own drum and pursue the players they feel would be best for the team. if they take any cues to the fanbase though (which I think they do), they will see that many people (though of course not everyone) are skittish about the offence-first guy, even if the defence is average.

Your opinion of "I don't think the Raps would bite on a trade offer for a Beal, Lillard or KAT type player even if it was on the table" is a common one around the fanbase . Thing is, any team knowing that one of these 3 were available would seriously consider it (these guys are among the most impactful offensive players in the league right now, comfortably generating their own offence at will when things stall, therefore highly coveted). For some reason though, because they happen to not be nba all-defence caliber like Fred/OG etc.., they're not good enough for us (in the eyes of some). We'll see how it plays out.