Toronto Raptors who are still playing Alumni thread ....

[Primer]

I completely agree with that first point.

For that second it was their new coach (a guy you wanted here by the way) that wanted Fred.

Fred on a max deal has been widely panned as a very bad deal.

Did the new coach also want Dillon Brooks?

If so maybe Udoka shouldn't be the one shaping the roster and should stick to Xs and Os. Most coaches make pretty bad GMs, not all, but most.

[planetmars]

Fred on a max deal has been widely panned as a very bad deal.

Did the new coach also want Dillon Brooks?

If so maybe Udoka shouldn't be the one shaping the roster and should stick to Xs and Os. Most coaches make pretty bad GMs, not all, but most.

I suspect it was a collaboration between front office and coach. You don't bring in a system that can't work with your personnel. Udoka likely wants to emphasize toughness, defense, etc. And Houston was missing some of that and brought guys in to help.

I don't think the deal was panned at all unless you can find me some sources saying otherwise. They got him for only 2 years. That 3rd year is a full team option. They had a lot of cap space and used it on the guy they wanted. And when their young kids get raises they can let go of Fred.

Read the reasons for why Houston made the signing here:
https://archive.is/OTJzZ

It's an athletic article but that link gets around the paywall.

[LJ2]

Pointless? By the end, pretty much the entire fan base was echoing stuff about Fred that I had pointed out years earlier. What was previously called an “attack” was later considered to be consensus opinion. I actually backed off a bit criticizing Fred because the piling on last season was getting too much.

Point being, I was never a Fred hater…. just a poster making un-biased observations that people initially disagreed until they saw it for themselves.

My good man, there was a point somewhere when you started with this theory that Nurse and Fred were going to team up in Orlando and take credit for the teams turnaround. Just one of your many un-biased observations. I gotta admit though I got a good chuckle out of that one.

[LJ2]

Well if according to you neither of us have enough info to decide if Fred is a good leader or not we can leave it there I guess.

Rockets gave out a bad contract, they're a poorly run team in my opinion. They also gave a massive deal to Dillon Brooks, make that make sense. Teams do dumb stuff all the time.

So you're saying there's a chance we get a nice haul for Pascal yet!

[Primer]

So you're saying there's a chance we get a nice haul for Pascal yet!

Yeah I'm still hopeful we will get a return that the fanbase can stomach.

If we don't have action on it early August I hope we just do the extension and then he will be trade eligible in January, giving us a month before the deadline to line up a better deal on Pascal with term.

[LJ2]

Yeah I'm still hopeful we will get a return that the fanbase can stomach.

If we don't have action on it early August I hope we just do the extension and then he will be trade eligible in January, giving us a month before the deadline to line up a better deal on Pascal with term.

That's pretty much the way I see it going though I'm really hoping they get something done this summer.

[MixxAOR]

Fred doesn’t tweet (or, I guess, X ) that much but between that retweet and his last two….

…is he sending a message to a certain mouthy new teammate?

I just wanna know what the turtle means

[golden]

My good man, there was a point somewhere when you started with this theory that Nurse and Fred were going to team up in Orlando and take credit for the teams turnaround. Just one of your many un-biased observations. I gotta admit though I got a good chuckle out of that one.

Pretty big difference between speculating about where a guy will land in FA (based on multiple media reports) vs observing and commenting on the limitations of a player’s game, that others don’t see yet because they are still in the honeymoon period.

If you want to use a once-size-fits-all approach to try to invalidate every post ever made… then that’s your prerogative.

Btw, I also suggested Nurse and Fred could team up in Houston, when nobody thought about Fred going there and Nurse was the #1 rumored coaching candidate. That was a lot closer to happening.

[LJ2]

Pretty big difference between speculating about where a guy will land in FA (based on multiple media reports) vs observing and commenting on the limitations of a player’s game, that others don’t see yet because they are still in the honeymoon period.

If you want to use a once-size-fits-all approach to try to invalidate every post ever made… then that’s your prerogative.

Btw, I also suggested Nurse and Fred could team up in Houston, when nobody thought about Fred going there and Nurse was the #1 rumored coaching candidate. That was a lot closer to happening.

Not at all, but kind of ridiculous that you tout yourself as a neutral observer making unbiased comments about Fred. And I don't think anybody here is unbiased towards one way or another when it comes to this team.

[golden]

Not at all, but kind of ridiculous that you tout yourself as a neutral observer making unbiased comments about Fred. And I don't think anybody here is unbiased towards one way or another when it comes to this team.

Sure, in the grand scheme of things, nobody is truly un-biased about anything. That's impossible, since we are conditioned from birth and even biased through genetics.

But the broader point is/was that the general population eventually shifted their opinions towards those earlier unpopular opinions and observations of Fred, which means that they were actually neutral and un-biased at the time. It was the general population that was overly biased. You, and many on here, just have/had a gut reaction because there was a love affair with Fred and pointing out any negatives about him at the time seemed unfairly un-biased (towards hate).

Same situation with the perception of Nurse where people on here believed he could walk on water. That was probably an even bigger gut reaction where, unfortunately, I ended up having to point out a lot of negatives, even though I think Nurse is/was a good coach.

[LJ2]

Sure, in the grand scheme of things, nobody is truly un-biased about anything. That's impossible, since we are conditioned from birth and even biased through genetics.

But the broader point is/was that the general population eventually shifted their opinions towards those earlier unpopular opinions and observations of Fred, which means that they were actually neutral and un-biased at the time. It was the general population that was overly biased. You, and many on here, just have/had a gut reaction because there was a love affair with Fred and pointing out any negatives about him at the time seemed unfairly un-biased (towards hate).

Same situation with the perception of Nurse where people on here believed he could walk on water. That was probably an even bigger gut reaction where, unfortunately, I ended up having to point out a lot of negatives, even though I think Nurse is/was a good coach.

By what metric did the general population shift their opinion and observations of Fred? If you recall I'm not speaking to his ability on the court, it's to his character that some here tend to attack because of whatever personal dislike they have towards him. I doubt the consensus on the site is that Fred was a bad guy. Further, I doubt that is the consensus outside of this site with the general fan base since they aren't as invested.

[The Claw Reborn]

Sure, in the grand scheme of things, nobody is truly un-biased about anything. That's impossible, since we are conditioned from birth and even biased through genetics.

But the broader point is/was that the general population eventually shifted their opinions towards those earlier unpopular opinions and observations of Fred, which means that they were actually neutral and un-biased at the time. It was the general population that was overly biased. You, and many on here, just have/had a gut reaction because there was a love affair with Fred and pointing out any negatives about him at the time seemed unfairly un-biased (towards hate).

Same situation with the perception of Nurse where people on here believed he could walk on water. That was probably an even bigger gut reaction where, unfortunately, I ended up having to point out a lot of negatives, even though I think Nurse is/was a good coach.

Lol

[Jclaw]

I just wanna know what the turtle means

Dunno. Maybe Tortoise and Hare stuff. Slow and steady wins the race?

[G____Deane]

There's a dice beside the turtle ie gambling on slow players (Fred)

[golden]

By what metric did the general population shift their opinion and observations of Fred? If you recall I'm not speaking to his ability on the court, it's to his character that some here tend to attack because of whatever personal dislike they have towards him. I doubt the consensus on the site is that Fred was a bad guy. Further, I doubt that is the consensus outside of this site with the general fan base since they aren't as invested.

Did you read Fred’s farewell letter? He himself, said he went “from fan favorite to most hated”.

I don’t do much social media, but it sounds like Fred was keeping score. Whatever you want to call the metric that keeps track of negative FVV comments… that’s it.