Fire Masai Ujiri.

[LJ2]

Yeah Grange said it was Allen and a future pick. The problem was we needed a PG without Fred around. Not just to finish last season but also to start this season. We would not have been able to afford Dennis without dipping into the tax.

Of course the other side of the coin was that if we took that Bucks offer they would have left them with no assets to get Dame (Allen and that first were part of that trade). And if they kept Jrue, Boston wouldn't have been able to move on him. So that was a bit of a trickle down effect.

We've got a long way to go ourselves before we need to worry about what other teams are doing, is my perspective on the trickle down effect.

Not to use a phrase used by a former Raptor which obviously fell flat this season, but I want a young team that's "coming for heads" next season. I don't want them giving anyone any respect.

[planetmars]

Every single team's value went up.
Even the Pistons from 400M to 3.1B

Yeah sure.. but Raptors grew to over $4B. Last time I checked $1 billion is still pretty significant.

[Kagemusha]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Osjme7mEqw

[LJ2]

Of course it will look a lot like today.
But the past two drafts had been talent rich, the team could have been a lot better in 3 to 5 years.

Does Detroit look like they could be a lot better than us in 3 to 5 years? How about Charlotte or Portland who are always picking in the top 5 range? Maybe if we got lucky and landed Wemby, but Raps feel like they already have their Wemby (Scottie) and that guys like RJ, Quickley and Gradey can be the supporting cast Scottie needs to contend in a couple years.

[3inthekeon]

Every single team's value went up.
Even the Pistons from 400M to 3.1B

Astute observation that every teams value went up. after I said the entire NBA has seen a huge increase . (The entire NBA means every team)

The Pistons actually dropped from the 22nd most valuable to 25th most valuable.

Under Masai, Raptors went from a bottom 10 team in value to a top 10 team. I don't know why that is so hard to understand.

[Kagemusha]

Does Detroit look like they could be a lot better than us in 3 to 5 years? How about Charlotte or Portland who are always picking in the top 5 range? Maybe if we got lucky and landed Wemby, but Raps feel like they already have their Wemby (Scottie) and that guys like RJ, Quickley and Gradey can be the supporting cast Scottie needs to contend in a couple years.

What I am saying is that if we started rebuild 2 years ago, we could have drafted and got better players than what we currently have.

[planetmars]

What I am saying is that if we started rebuild 2 years ago, we could have drafted and got better players than what we currently have.

I don't think that is 100% true. If you look over the 2022 and 2023 drafts we may not have gotten a better player. In 2022, the best guys went 1-5. After that it was pretty even.. and Koloko was a fine pick even if we got him in the second round. Who knew that he would have blood clots?

As for 2023 I like the Dick pick and would have grabbed him top 5. Wemby is the big miss, but who knows if we would have gotten him even if we did tank that year.

What we potentially missed on by not rebuilding early is a better package for Pascal potentially. But then we may not have also gotten RJ/IQ for OG.

[LJ2]

What I am saying is that if we started rebuild 2 years ago, we could have drafted and got better players than what we currently have.

It's debatable for sure, but like I said we may have also ended up drafting players who are as good as RJ or Quickley and in the same position as today.

The realization I'm coming to now days is that more than anything else the important thing for the Raps is that Scottie turns into a star. I use OKC as an example but without Shai they are maybe a play-in team? Without Ja, Memphis is a lottery team, without Luka...you get the point. If and when Scottie turns into something special guys like RJ, Quickley and Dick are going to all look like studs.

[golden]

He also showed the rankings. Raptors went from 21st to 9th.

Hornets despite being sold for $3B went from 29th to 27th.

So under Masai's tenure the Toronto Raptors have grown in relation to other franchises.

2013:
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/f...chise-in-2013/

2023:
https://d3data.sportico.com/NBAValua...tionsList.html

lol. Hornets market is Charlotte, and maybe North Carolina and other neighbouring states. And they compete with UNC and Duke, etc... for basketball eyeballs.

Raptors market is All of Canada and have zero competition for basketball. You can actually make the argument that the Hornets have exceeded their business potential and that the Raptors have vastly underperformed their potential, relative to each team's Total Available Market size.

[Kagemusha]

It's debatable for sure, but like I said we may have also ended up drafting players who are as good as RJ or Quickley and in the same position as today.

The realization I'm coming to now days is that more than anything else the important thing for the Raps is that Scottie turns into a star. I use OKC as an example but without Shai they are maybe a play-in team? Without Ja, Memphis is a lottery team, without Luka...you get the point. If and when Scottie turns into something special guys like RJ, Quickley and Dick are going to all look like studs.

I am not totally sold on both, tbh.
Scottie and RJ is just another Scottie-Pascal all over again. Two players that play the same position.

As for IQ, he can even choose to play with Wemby next season.
Or we end up overpaying him.

[3inthekeon]

lol. Hornets market is Charlotte, and maybe North Carolina and other neighbouring states. And they compete with UNC and Duke, etc... for basketball eyeballs.

Raptors market is All of Canada and have zero competition for basketball. You can actually make the argument that the Hornets have exceeded their business potential and that the Raptors have vastly underperformed their potential, relative to each team's Total Available Market size.

Raptors had been around 18 years, including the Vince era, and were still mired in the Charlotte range of franchise values until Masai took over. So yes they were underperforming until Masai took over. It's only since Masai took over that the Raptors have approached their potential.

[Primer]

I am not totally sold on both, tbh.
Scottie and RJ is just another Scottie-Pascal all over again. Two players that play the same position.

As for IQ, he can even choose to play with Wemby next season.
Or we end up overpaying him.

He's a RFA so we will only pay him what others are willing to pay him. If multiple teams are willing to pay him a salary that's what he's worth and not an overpay. Anyways, RFA are typically not overpaid due to their restricted status, so I'm not worried about it. Zero chance we let IQ walk no matter what happens.

[Kagemusha]

He's a RFA so we will only pay him what others are willing to pay him. If multiple teams are willing to pay him a salary that's what he's worth and not an overpay. Anyways, RFA are typically not overpaid due to their restricted status, so I'm not worried about it. Zero chance we let IQ walk no matter what happens.

If teams throw a boatload of money at him, Masai will have no option but match.

[planetmars]

lol. Hornets market is Charlotte, and maybe North Carolina and other neighbouring states. And they compete with UNC and Duke, etc... for basketball eyeballs.

Raptors market is All of Canada and have zero competition for basketball. You can actually make the argument that the Hornets have exceeded their business potential and that the Raptors have vastly underperformed their potential, relative to each team's Total Available Market size.

Yet the Raptors went from 21st to 9th in a decade under Masai's leadership. Who's to say they don't remain in the 20's if Masai was never hired? If you are looking for more than 9th then that's fine. But I think being top 10 is pretty awesome considering they get nothing from the US and basketball was considered a fringe sport for the longest time here in this country (again before Masai took over).

[Primer]

Yet the Raptors went from 21st to 9th in a decade under Masai's leadership. Who's to say they don't remain in the 20's if Masai was never hired? If you are looking for more than 9th then that's fine. But I think being top 10 is pretty awesome considering they get nothing from the US and basketball was considered a fringe sport for the longest time here in this country (again before Masai took over).

Raptors are not at a disadvantage being in Canada vs USA. Every teams gets the same TV money from the NBA (so that's a BIG something from the US), then they get to sell to their local broadcast partners, of which the Raptors have a huge advantage broadcasting to all of Canada. Then there is money from ticket sales and Raptors are at a huge advantage due to the market size and affluence of Toronto. LA and NY are the only cities I think have a distinct advantage over Toronto.