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  • Barolt wrote: View Post
    Aldridge has had chemistry issues with Damian Lillard and Kawhi Leonard, two of the easiest guys in the league to get along with.

    I don't want any piece of that, especially if it costs JV.
    I dont see the cost being that high because I feel that Yak can give you JV production when he is 24. With better defence as well.

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    @Chr1st1anL

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    • Sinbad wrote: View Post
      Was just about to point this out. He doesn't just want to win. He wants to be the undisputed star that takes the most FGA's. That wasn't going to happen in Portland given Lillard's rise, and it definitely wasn't happening in San Antonio. He likes to isolate, and though he's very, very good at it, I really don't see how that would play out in Toronto given the current dynamic with the guard-oriented offense.
      I dont see it as much of an issue because Kyle/Deebo aren't selfish guys. I could see K-Low/Deebo giving up shots if it meant playing with LA. They know how good he is.

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      • Aldridge also hates playing C and is only going to get slower from here on out.

        The time to get Aldridge was drafting him. That ship sailed long ago and there's no scenario to acquire him that really makes any kind of real sense at this point. It would be a move that's all about putting on a show. It would be really tough to acquire him in a way that makes us obviously better both in the short and long term.

        Cousins at least is young...he's just crazy and overrated. Everyone who wants him hides behind the "Sacto is a mess excuse". But again, how many top tier talents has that really ever stopped? Their mere presence should greatly help stabilize any franchise. Not like Cleveland was (or even is now) a model franchise with LeBron. Shit, Griffin got drafted into the worst team probably in the history of pro sports and completely turned them around...Yes they got Paul, but Paul only opts to stay in LAC because of Griffin. They had the worst owner in pro sports who made it very hard for anything to run smoothly top to bottom. Having one top 20 talent attracted a second and convinced him to stay, and made it an easy move for the NBA to force their owner out when they finally got the chance to (I'm honestly not sure how hard the NBA pushes if the Clips are still a laughing stock at that time...sure they would condemn him and punish him somehow...but not sure they would've forced him out).

        Nobody who plays with Cousins wants to stay there and he fully has the power to make the situation attractive if he's as talented as everyone claims. I just don't see a way you can objectively look at Cousins/Sacto and not think that despite the ownership, Cousins himself is clearly a big part of the problem. Again, he probably has more power than anybody to change the direction of that franchise, and he just hasn't shown that ability on or off the court.
        Last edited by white men can't jump; Sun Oct 23rd, 2016, 12:53 PM.

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        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
          I dont see it as much of an issue because Kyle/Deebo aren't selfish guys. I could see K-Low/Deebo giving up shots if it meant playing with LA. They know how good he is.

          Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
          What? Kyle and DeMar aren't 'selfish guys'? Maybe not as people, but as basketball players they sure as hell are.

          Go back and look at our playoff usage numbers.
          twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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          • Barolt wrote: View Post
            What? Kyle and DeMar aren't 'selfish guys'? Maybe not as people, but as basketball players they sure as hell are.

            Go back and look at our playoff usage numbers.
            It's different when you look over and see LA. Deebo/K-Low have been talking about getting JV more involved all trainning camp. If they are willing to give up shots for JV than they will certainly give up shots for LA.

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            • Lupe wrote: View Post
              We can't afford to trade JV for Aldridge. Leaves us without any sort of reliable option at center, if we still had Biz we might be ok but probably not. Not to mention that it's a completely all-in move on a player that's getting up there in age.
              yeah... for the options that we are discussing (LA or DC), we won't be acquire them without trading JV away..
              only thing is it would only make sense for Sacramento to be very hesitant to trade DC... while it would not make for us to trade JV for LA due to Raptors' current roster status

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              • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                It's different when you look over and see LA. Deebo/K-Low have been talking about getting JV more involved all trainning camp. If they are willing to give up shots for JV than they will certainly give up shots for LA.

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                So your theory is that we should give up JV, a promising young center, on the hopes that:

                1) DeMar and Kyle defer to LA.
                2) LA can be happy next to DeMar and Kyle, where he won't be regarded in the media as the #1 guy.
                3) Poeltl can step in and immediately be an impact center for us.

                That's a lot of 'if's in the air, for a guy who hasn't been able to work with Kawhi Leonard, who is a far less selfish star than either Kyle or DeMar.
                twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                • Barolt wrote: View Post
                  So your theory is that we should give up JV, a promising young center, on the hopes that:

                  1) DeMar and Kyle defer to LA.
                  2) LA can be happy next to DeMar and Kyle, where he won't be regarded in the media as the #1 guy.
                  3) Poeltl can step in and immediately be an impact center for us.

                  That's a lot of 'if's in the air, for a guy who hasn't been able to work with Kawhi Leonard, who is a far less selfish star than either Kyle or DeMar.
                  I know Deebo and KLow will defer to another top 20 player.

                  Media already think LA is better than Kyle or Demar. So he would already seem like our #1 guy.

                  Poeltl doesn't have to step in. Sully started 71 games as a center for a 48 win team. Top 5 defence.

                  Not that many "ifs" as you think.

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                  @Chr1st1anL

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                  • Barolt wrote: View Post
                    So your theory is that we should give up JV, a promising young center, on the hopes that:

                    1) DeMar and Kyle defer to LA.
                    2) LA can be happy next to DeMar and Kyle, where he won't be regarded in the media as the #1 guy.
                    3) Poeltl can step in and immediately be an impact center for us.

                    That's a lot of 'if's in the air, for a guy who hasn't been able to work with Kawhi Leonard, who is a far less selfish star than either Kyle or DeMar.
                    1) They would. It's not even a question. They know LMA's reputation in the league. He's not some "promising" up and coming C that has still yet to produce at an all-star level. Aldridge has already played at their level for just as long and they know that let's not act like this is even a question.

                    2) He won't be regarded #1 on ANY top team in the league. I think his attitude (which I don't like) is more an issue of SAS' culture of selflessness....ours is quite the opposite lol we're a team that treats all-stars like superstars. LMA will get a TON of love from the media and fans as if he were a superstar unlike the Spurs where of course they know who their best players are but again is all about blending in, not standing out. Very different here despite our depth.

                    3) I like Poeltl's odds of being able step in just as much as anybody else's and Sully has played C plenty BUT this is where the actual issue lies...LMA can cry about it until he is blue in the face but in todays NBA he is a C (period). He is just too damn big for todays PFs and his style of play is far more on par with the modern C which is some midrange and post moves. But as we all know he whined about that in years past.

                    Personally I am not that high on LMA here unless we kept JV but that wouldnt happen. But I didnt think that your reasons for why it wouldnt work are right. The issue is simply his style of play, what position he should play, his willingness to accept it and that he basically just upgrades JV but still leaves a hole at PF and if that is the case DMC is better. Neither guy I feel puts us over the top but both certainly solidify us as ECF to Finals appearances for the next several years which given GSWs mega team is really all you could ask for at this point. Realistically our team has no real chance of contending unless we added someone like Paul George right into our line up and again there is zero chance of that happening.

                    Milsap and Bosh would be far better fits but both with huge risk one contractually and the other obviously health. Milsap would actually be the best fit imo but he is going to want a ton of money that we do not have and he is also too old to give him that kinda pay cheque.

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                    • This idea that DeMar and Kyle would 'automatically defer' seems kind of ridiculous to me.

                      Also, Sully started at center on a top 5 defense with ELITE wing defenders. Boston didn't need a rim protector because they kept guys from getting to the rim.

                      You really want to play 82 games a year with DeMar DeRozan playing 30-35+ minutes, and no rim protection whatsoever?
                      twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                      • golden wrote: View Post
                        This is probably one of the better pro-Cousins arguments.

                        No doubt there is a huge lack of respect issue from Lowry/DD/Casey towards JV. Cousins would demand that respect, if not through his play, then with his intimidating & volatile personality. Would Cousins coming in be enough to force Lowry/Casey to play a more in-out style, considering that Cousins is also a very good passer?

                        However, the downside chemistry risk is huge with a higher possibility of ending up like the Lowry/DD/Gay shit-show where the parts didn't fit. It would be only a matter of time before Lowry and Cousins want to kill each other. I mean, even a textbook role player like DeMarre Carroll is having a really hard time fitting in with Lowry and DD, because the Raps offense is designed to read and react off of their unpredictable drives. Raptor bigs job is to rebound Lowry/DD misses or finish high lobs, and shooters need to constantly position themselves for awkward Lowry/DD bailout passes, which messes up their shooting rhythm even if they are wide open. Playing with Lowry and DD is not easy, and Cousins has the same reputation, if not worse. Put 3 of those type of guys together and .....
                        If Lowry truly is inheriting the Billups mantle then I think he can keep Sheed/Cousins in line. Cousins has never had a vet leader like Lowry around.

                        That said, yes it's definitely a risk.

                        As for Aldridge, the guy shoots as many mid-range jumpers as DeMar. They'd be totally in each other's way. Terrible fit imo.
                        It's the Spicy Show! Time to cook.

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                        • Barolt wrote: View Post
                          This idea that DeMar and Kyle would 'automatically defer' seems kind of ridiculous to me.

                          Also, Sully started at center on a top 5 defense with ELITE wing defenders. Boston didn't need a rim protector because they kept guys from getting to the rim.

                          You really want to play 82 games a year with DeMar DeRozan playing 30-35+ minutes, and no rim protection whatsoever?
                          I agree on the point of rim protection (although JV isn't a great shotblocker by any stretch of the imagination) but I find it far more ridiculous to think they wouldn't look for LMA. What the heck team will not incorporate him into their offence?! That's so asinine.

                          Again this is not some young "up and coming" player that has to prove himself, he is already a proven All Star in this league who has just as much accomplishments as they do, they may have their flaws but they're not daft. They don't feel confident to defer to other guys because they're young and yes inconsistent. I'm doing my best not to say any insults but that is just an absurd assumption it's even more ludicrous to assume on a team in NEED of a PF, never mind a multiple time all-star PF. I don't care which team you pick in the league, if Aldridge joins their roster they're going to find a way to include him (period).
                          Last edited by JamesNaismith; Sun Oct 23rd, 2016, 10:40 PM.

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                          • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                            I agree on the point of rim protection (although JV isn't a great shotblocker by any stretch of the imagination) but I find it far more ridiculous to think they wouldn't look for LMA. What the heck team will not incorporate him into their offence?! That's so asinine.

                            Again this is not some young "up and coming" player that has to prove himself, he is already a proven All Star in this league who has just as much accomplishments as they do, they may have their flaws but they're not daft. They don't feel confident to defer to other guys because they're young and yes inconsistent. I'm doing my best not to say any insults but that is just an absurd assumption it's even more ludicrous to assume on a team in NEED of a PF, never mind a multiple time all-star PF. I don't care which team you pick in the league, if Aldridge joins their roster they're going to find a way to include him (period).
                            To add to that, deferring to LMA means an increased chance of winning and it isn't a shot to their ego. Its funny cause if LMA came to Toronto last year they could have easily ended up in the finals for several years, whereas the Spurs will have to fight to get to a conference finals over the course of his whole contract.

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                            • DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post
                              To add to that, deferring to LMA means an increased chance of winning and it isn't a shot to their ego. Its funny cause if LMA came to Toronto last year they could have easily ended up in the finals for several years, whereas the Spurs will have to fight to get to a conference finals over the course of his whole contract.
                              Hmm well I wouldn't say that if LMA was here that we would have made the Finals last year or this one. I would only see it potentially happening next year at the earliest when LBJ does actually start to slowdown from all these repeated Finals' appearances, I think there will be some burn out after this year and eventually just age sets in. But I agree that having LMA would solidify us as ECF participants and give us the chance to make the Finals every year until Lowry's body gives out in a few years and again it's wonderful to have championship aspirations but so few franchises ever do without being their own little dynasty, unfortunately for us and everybody else KD decided to f up the league for years to come.

                              Again unless we basically inserted PG into our team (which obviously couldn't happen) we will never be true contenders for to win it all. If we stay the course as we are, we will float between 2nd rd to ECF which becomes labelled as a "Treadmill team", if we brought on a player like a LMA, Milsap, DMC etc we somewhat change that label to being a top team in the league that just can't get over the hump which isn't the ideal result but it's a nice shift to see our franchise go from bottom feeder to one of the more respected teams in the league.

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                              • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                                Hmm well I wouldn't say that if LMA was here that we would have made the Finals last year or this one. I would only see it potentially happening next year at the earliest when LBJ does actually start to slowdown from all these repeated Finals' appearances, I think there will be some burn out after this year and eventually just age sets in. But I agree that having LMA would solidify us as ECF participants and give us the chance to make the Finals every year until Lowry's body gives out in a few years and again it's wonderful to have championship aspirations but so few franchises ever do without being their own little dynasty, unfortunately for us and everybody else KD decided to f up the league for years to come.

                                Again unless we basically inserted PG into our team (which obviously couldn't happen) we will never be true contenders for to win it all. If we stay the course as we are, we will float between 2nd rd to ECF which becomes labelled as a "Treadmill team", if we brought on a player like a LMA, Milsap, DMC etc we somewhat change that label to being a top team in the league that just can't get over the hump which isn't the ideal result but it's a nice shift to see our franchise go from bottom feeder to one of the more respected teams in the league.
                                LMA would increase the ceiling of the Raptors in the short-term, but I agree that its going too far to pencil them into the Finals. Until LeBron can't be LeBron anymore, nobody is beating the Cavs barring a superteam being assembled in the East.

                                And no, we won't be legitimate title contenders any time soon, though I think the organization is content being a treadmill team so long as the Raptors sell out the building during the regular season and consistently generate playoff revenue. Masai and Casey have alluded to wanting to be a team like the Spurs or the Mavericks that make the playoffs every year and are "in the mix" but, without superstars, they run the risk of turning into Memphis-- a team holding on to an aging core that isn't good enough and has no chance of competing for a title; they had their run to the Conference Finals in 2013 and have won just one playoff series since.
                                Last edited by Sinbad; Mon Oct 24th, 2016, 12:30 AM.

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