Everything Pascal Siakam

[LJ2]

There are guys not trade eligible until September as well, Like Bogdan on the Hawks. I really hope the hold up is us waiting for more guys to become trade eligible. That could also be holding up Harden and Lillard deals. Might be waiting for the dam to burst situation.

Good point, I forgot about the salary filler part. I don't think Bogdan specifically would be the guy coming back as salary filler since he's still an important rotation player for them if they are going "all in". Not sure if Patty Mills and Hunter would be enough filler with Griffin and Bufkin as the prize.

[Primer]

Good point, I forgot about the salary filler part. I don't think Bogdan specifically would be the guy coming back as salary filler since he's still an important rotation player for them if they are going "all in". Not sure if Patty Mills and Hunter would be enough filler with Griffin and Bufkin as the prize.

I think we would definitely prefer Bogdan to Hunter, and maybe that switch isn't a deal breaker for the Hawks, so could be waiting on it.

Just trying to make it make sense.

[LJ2]

I'd be okay with Hunter over Bogdan. Fits the Scottie timeline better, and if Griffin and Bufkin are coming over as part of that trade then it would be crowded at the guard/wing positions. Schroeder, Bufkin, Griffin, Trent, Dick, OG, Dowtin, Flynn and Nowell is a lot. We could probably use the size Hunter brings with Pascal going the other way.

I do not want to be waiting until September for something to happen.

[Maury]

Griffin or Mathurin have to be coming back or I’m waiting. No point selling an all-nba forward for spare parts.

[Shredder]

Griffin or Mathurin have to be coming back or I’m waiting. No point selling an all-nba forward for spare parts.

Or a ton picks from okc

[Primer]

I'd be okay with Hunter over Bogdan. Fits the Scottie timeline better, and if Griffin and Bufkin are coming over as part of that trade then it would be crowded at the guard/wing positions. Schroeder, Bufkin, Griffin, Trent, Dick, OG, Dowtin, Flynn and Nowell is a lot. We could probably use the size Hunter brings with Pascal going the other way.

I do not want to be waiting until September for something to happen.

Hawks want to move Hunter to get him out of the way for Griffin, Griffin is also a SF. If Griffin is coming we don't need Hunter. Bufkin doesn't seem like he'll be nba ready this year. Gradey looks awesome but Bogdan is able to contribute at a high level right now. I'd rather have Bogdan than Hunter.

To be clear I'd take any deal on the table that incudes Griffin, don't care what the other pieces are.

[chris]

some perhaps sobering perspective from the hawks side of things. pascal trade talk starts around the 13 min mark.

these guys are about analogous to samson and tre shooting the shit on an RR pod - so obviously massively biased, but also credentialed media members who attend summer league and the one guys seemed to have some insight on contract extension talks.

the one dude is only willing to give up hunter and capela in a pascal deal. the other is willing to go as far as adding saddiq bey. griffin is untouchable in their minds and they're not willing to give up okungwu, bufkin, jalen johnons, or future firsts.

so yeah, kinda easy to understand why things might be "on hold." management pretty clearly plans to move him, but i doubt teams are offering anything real. will that improve?

the front office is in a real pickle here

[Primer]

some perhaps sobering perspective from the hawks side of things. pascal trade talk starts around the 13 min mark.

these guys are about analogous to samson and tre shooting the shit on an RR pod - so obviously massively biased, but also credentialed media members who attend summer league and the one guys seemed to have some insight on contract extension talks.

the one dude is only willing to give up hunter and capela in a pascal deal. the other is willing to go as far as adding saddiq bey. griffin is untouchable in their minds and they're not willing to give up okungwu, bufkin, jalen johnons, or future firsts.

so yeah, kinda easy to understand why things might be "on hold." management pretty clearly plans to move him, but i doubt teams are offering anything real. will that improve?

the front office is in a real pickle here

Why the hell would we even want Hunter and Capella? Did they try to look at it from Raptors point of view at all? Seems like a waste of time to even listen to that.

[chris]

Why the hell would we even want Hunter and Capella? Did they try to look at it from Raptors point of view at all? Seems like a waste of time to even listen to that.

maybe about as big a waste of time as authoring hundred's of posts on all the cool shit the raps can get for pascal?

the point is they weren't too enthusiastic about the prospect of giving up anything of real value in a pascal deal, and would rather just not trade for him if they had to. the one guy felt the hawks could afford to be patient and didn't need to make any shortsighted moves. they knew raps wouldn't be interested in capela and discussed getting dallas involved who have shown interest in him.

pretty natural to discuss hunter as he's been mentioned in literally every scenario i've heard from anybody that might have any knowledge of the talks between the two teams

[Primer]

maybe about as big a waste of time as authoring hundred's of posts on all the cool shit the raps can get for pascal?

the point is they weren't too enthusiastic about the prospect of giving up anything of real value in a pascal deal, and would rather just not trade for him if they had to. the one guy felt the hawks could afford to be patient and didn't need to make any shortsighted moves. they knew raps wouldn't be interested in capela and discussed getting dallas involved who have shown interest in him.

pretty natural to discuss hunter as he's been mentioned in literally every scenario i've heard from anybody that might have any knowledge of the talks between the two teams

Oh God give me a break with the first sentence. Do you think I was personally criticizing you for having listened to it? I was talking about our time as Raptors Fans. We choose to be here and read and respond to each other's posts. I need a good reason to go listen to a podcast from Hawks bloggers.

I also put way more thought into what the other team would actually want to do when discussing trades. That's why I've been saying give me Griffin and whatever else it takes to make salary work. I'm not delusional pretending Pascal is worth tons of picks and prospects.

We have zero need for either Hunter or Capella. Neither of those guys would start here. We don't even need them off the bench. Better to let Pascal leave for nothing.

If these bloggers can't even rationalize this dumb trade proposal then it's not worth anyone's time listening to it. They gave up a shit ton more than Hunter and Capella to get Murray and Pascal is better than Murray.

I'm not sure how Hawks can afford to be patient when they're in win now mode, unless by patient they mean until September.

[chris]

Oh God give me a break with the first sentence. Do you think I was personally criticizing you for having listened to it? I was talking about our time as Raptors Fans. We choose to be here and read and respond to each other's posts. I need a good reason to go listen to a podcast from Hawks bloggers.

I also put way more thought into what the other team would actually want to do when discussing trades. That's why I've been saying give me Griffin and whatever else it takes to make salary work. I'm not delusional pretending Pascal is worth tons of picks and prospects.

We have zero need for either Hunter or Capella. Neither of those guys would start here. We don't even need them off the bench. Better to let Pascal leave for nothing.

If these bloggers can't even rationalize this dumb trade proposal then it's not worth anyone's time listening to it. They gave up a shit ton more than Hunter and Capella to get Murray and Pascal is better than Murray.

I'm not sure how Hawks can afford to be patient when they're in win now mode, unless by patient they mean until September.

atlanta fans might argue you're delusional for thinking griffin is a realistic trade target. they think he's untouchable

why are the hawks in win now mode? because of the murray trade? they shitcanned the guy who made that trade. if i was atlanta i'd feel the exact same as the dude on this podcast - there's no need to do anything short sighted (i'd be looking to move trae young, but that's a different story). they are stocked with young talent on rookie deals which i think are going to become even more valuable commodities in this league under the new CBA, which is something i've been saying for months now since the rumours of what the next CBA might entail emerged. cheap young talent is how most successful teams in the NFL are built, which is what the NBA is essentially moving closer towards under the new CBA, except NBA contracts are guaranteed so even more damaging if you have a bad one on the books than the NFL. rare are teams like the rams who won on the backs of expensive veterans and no depth - and they are paying steeply for that one title with a terrible team and a dearth of future picks now.

my larger point with posting that is that it seems like atlanta is extremely interested in trading for pascal only if he can be had for an bargain and are reluctant to part with anything of value. this podcast aligns with what zach lowe was saying on his podcast that rudy b brought up last week.

which was all to say that management is really staring at a bowl of shit here. they seemingly really want to move him for all the reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum for the better part of a year now, but also may as well just resign if they end up moving him for the kinds of returns talked about by lowe and on that podcast.

their options to me seem to be - hope offers improve into next year (super risky!), trade him for a pu-pu platter (career suicide?), or bring him back on a team whose roster construction doesn't make any sense to most outside observers and doesn't maximize either of scottie or pascal's skillsets (and risk losing him for nothing).

many fans here are already furious the deal 'is on hold', but it's certainly understandable why they'd be stalling under the circumstances.

[LJ2]

If the Hawks think of Griffin how the Raptors think of Barnes, then yeah I don't see the deal happening.

We'd have to toss in OG and hope that convinces them that Pascal/OG would make them favs to win it all.

[Primer]

If the Hawks think of Griffin how the Raptors think of Barnes, then yeah I don't see the deal happening.

We'd have to toss in OG and hope that convinces them that Pascal/OG would make them favs to win it all.

If not Griffin then a pick and Bufkin.

We're not trading OG and Pascal to the same team.

[LJ2]

If not Griffin then a pick and Bufkin.

We're not trading OG and Pascal to the same team.

A pick in the 20's, Bufkin and salary filler for Siakam would be a massive L for the Raps. I know the counter is that we could lose him for nothing. Would it be better to have another mediocre season with Pascal in a year we don't have our own pick or to trade him for a garbage package and be one of the worst teams in the league?

[DanH]

A pick in the 20's, Bufkin and salary filler for Siakam would be a massive L for the Raps. I know the counter is that we could lose him for nothing. Would it be better to have another mediocre season with Pascal in a year we don't have our own pick or to trade him for a garbage package and be one of the worst teams in the league?

Yeah, there are multiple thresholds in this decision.

If Pascal is willing to extend, the package to pull him away has to be high value. We might want to pivot to Scottie's timeline but we won't do so selling Pascal for a song if him just sticking around is an option we can get without risking losing him in FA.

If Pascal is not willing to extend, the package value we need drops, but not to nothing, because if he stays it is still more likely we can re-sign him than not next summer, between potentially having the supermax or failing that at least having Bird Rights advantages to re-signing him. But given the risk, if a decent return is there it has to be considered - but at what value a package moves from decent to not decent I'm not sure.

There are ancillary concerns of course - does keeping Pascal impact Scottie, or OG, or anyone else, and does it do so in a positive or negative fashion? That will swing the math on the acceptable return one way or another. Very foggy, hard to nail down a concrete answer.