Everything Pascal Siakam

[Primer]

A pick in the 20's, Bufkin and salary filler for Siakam would be a massive L for the Raps. I know the counter is that we could lose him for nothing. Would it be better to have another mediocre season with Pascal in a year we don't have our own pick or to trade him for a garbage package and be one of the worst teams in the league?

Hunter, Bufkin and a 1st is not garbage. Let's start with that.

You may think it's not enough value in return for Pascal, which I would agree with if Pascal was under contract long term or willing to sign an extension where we trade him. Since he's neither of those things, we have to take a lesser return.

A lesser return is not garbage.

I don't think we'd be one of the worst teams in the league. I think we'd finish fairly close to where we did this last season, which was 9th in the East. Maybe we finish 11th instead. Who freaking cares? It's nowhere near contention either way.

We need to start building around Scottie and Pascal is the number 1 roadblock to that since Scottie will never develop to his potential playing next to Pascal.

[LJ2]

Hunter, Bufkin and a 1st is not garbage. Let's start with that.

You may think it's not enough value in return for Pascal, which I would agree with if Pascal was under contract long term or willing to sign an extension where we trade him. Since he's neither of those things, we have to take a lesser return.

A lesser return is not garbage.

I don't think we'd be one of the worst teams in the league. I think we'd finish fairly close to where we did this last season, which was 9th in the East. Maybe we finish 11th instead. Who freaking cares? It's nowhere near contention either way.

We need to start building around Scottie and Pascal is the number 1 roadblock to that since Scottie will never develop to his potential playing next to Pascal.

I'm not quite as confident as you that a starting line-up of Schroeder, Trent, OG, Barnes and Poeltl isn't going to be one of the worst teams in the league. There's nobody there that can get a bucket on their own consistently or can command a double team or have any sort of gravity. Certainly no work horse like Pascal that's an every possession type of player.

Agree we need to start building around Scottie, and we'll have to see if Scottie is ready for that or not. If he comes out with handles like LeBron and he's running the show and steamrolling down the lane every possession then I have little concern about Pascal being a roadblock. He'll fall in line and it might even be a great fit. If it's more deferring to others this season from Scottie then all the more reason we move Pascal for an alpha type like what Griffin or Mathurin projects to be.

[Primer]

I'm not quite as confident as you that a starting line-up of Schroeder, Trent, OG, Barnes and Poeltl isn't going to be one of the worst teams in the league. There's nobody there that can get a bucket on their own consistently or can command a double team or have any sort of gravity. Certainly no work horse like Pascal that's an every possession type of player.

Agree we need to start building around Scottie, and we'll have to see if Scottie is ready for that or not. If he comes out with handles like LeBron and he's running the show and steamrolling down the lane every possession then I have little concern about Pascal being a roadblock. He'll fall in line and it might even be a great fit. If it's more deferring to others this season from Scottie then all the more reason we move Pascal for an alpha type like what Griffin or Mathurin projects to be.

If I'm wrong and we end up being one of the worst teams in the league then we likely keep our draft pick (top 6 protected) and that helps speed up the rebuild because we should be able to get someone decent with a top 6 pick, even in a down year for the draft.

What is the point of keeping Pascal? We already lost Fred, so presumably we will be worse, so 9th seed is probably the best we could do. So again, what is the point?

Just rip the band aid and start the rebuild around Scottie by getting whatever we can for Pascal now.

[The Great One]

I'm not quite as confident as you that a starting line-up of Schroeder, Trent, OG, Barnes and Poeltl isn't going to be one of the worst teams in the league. There's nobody there that can get a bucket on their own consistently or can command a double team or have any sort of gravity.
.

Or shoot

That is a garbage lineup. A lineup that is not good enough to make playoffs or finish high in the lottery.

We are in no man's land folks.

[LJ2]

If I'm wrong and we end up being one of the worst teams in the league then we likely keep our draft pick (top 6 protected) and that helps speed up the rebuild because we should be able to get someone decent with a top 6 pick, even in a down year for the draft.

What is the point of keeping Pascal? We already lost Fred, so presumably we will be worse, so 9th seed is probably the best we could do. So again, what is the point?

Just rip the band aid and start the rebuild around Scottie by getting whatever we can for Pascal now.

No guarantees with land top 6 of the draft though and that's a lot of losing for Scottie to live through in his 3rd year. We can't assume he's going to feel great about resigning with a team if they are getting worse at the time he starts considering extensions. Usually teams are really bad in the rookie and sophomore years of a young star and the team is improving as they reach those types of decisions so there's a good feeling about signing an extension. We'd be doing the opposite to Scottie.

The purpose of keeping Pascal would be to resign him and trade him for a better package down the line when the fear of him walking isn't there for the team trading for him.

[MixxAOR]

No guarantees with land top 6 of the draft though and that's a lot of losing for Scottie to live through in his 3rd year. We can't assume he's going to feel great about resigning with a team if they are getting worse at the time he starts considering extensions. Usually teams are really bad in the rookie and sophomore years of a young star and the team is improving as they reach those types of decisions so there's a good feeling about signing an extension. We'd be doing the opposite to Scottie.

The purpose of keeping Pascal would be to resign him and trade him for a better package down the line when the fear of him walking isn't there for the team trading for him.

We just did this with Fred and it backfired royally. Management is just postponing the rebuild. It's coming for this franchise.

[LJ2]

We just did this with Fred and it backfired royally. Management is just postponing the rebuild. It's coming for this franchise.

We have the supermax though, so money won't be a motivation for Pascal like it was for Fred. All indications are we let Fred walk by not matching Houston's offer and it wasn't a situation where he walked because he didn't want to be here.

You're right about needing a rebuild, but there's rebuild and then there's scorched earth. Trading Pascal for Bufkin, a pick in the 20's and salary filler is scorched earth imo. That's the kind of move a GM may not survive, even Masai.

[planetmars]

If I'm wrong and we end up being one of the worst teams in the league then we likely keep our draft pick (top 6 protected) and that helps speed up the rebuild because we should be able to get someone decent with a top 6 pick, even in a down year for the draft.

What is the point of keeping Pascal? We already lost Fred, so presumably we will be worse, so 9th seed is probably the best we could do. So again, what is the point?

Just rip the band aid and start the rebuild around Scottie by getting whatever we can for Pascal now.

Oh so now losing Fred makes us worse? Interesting rebound from your takes earlier in the year. I completely agree with it.. just weird that you changed your stance so quickly.

[The Great One]

We just did this with Fred and it backfired royally. Management is just postponing the rebuild. It's coming for this franchise.

Problem with this management and this fanbase is they overvalue their own players. I think that's why Siakam and OG are still here.

OG Anunoby is not going to get you 3 1st and a good young player. He's not going to get you that. Gotta be "realistic"

Siakam doesn't have that kind of value either. OKC got a ton for Paul George. Siakam is not Paul George. He is not going to get you that kind of return. I'd be happy if they get someone like Nembhardt or Hunter for him.

Also, the management made everything worse by trading their 1st next year. If they didn't do that we'd still have our first next year and we'd probably have a prospect like Ausar Thompson on Anthony Black on this team. But hey they chose to compete in he play in(for what?) over picking high in the lottery. Very smart.

[planetmars]

We have the supermax though, so money won't be a motivation for Pascal like it was for Fred. All indications are we let Fred walk by not matching Houston's offer and it wasn't a situation where he walked because he didn't want to be here.

You're right about needing a rebuild, but there's rebuild and then there's scorched earth. Trading Pascal for Bufkin, a pick in the 20's and salary filler is scorched earth imo. That's the kind of move a GM may not survive, even Masai.

There is an eventual tipping point. Pascal/OG/Scottie will all be making a lot of money. Worst case it would be 35%, 30% and 25% of the cap.. Or 90% of the salary cap for 3 players. Two of which play fairly similar.

Maybe we can get Pascal at 30% and OG at 25%. Scottie will still likely get the full rookie max or 25%. that's still 80%. Hopefully OG settles for what Murray got which is about 17% of the cap.

Do note some of that will go down as the cap is likely to go up 10% every year for the foreseeable future.


But it's something that this front office is likely thinking about hard.

[MixxAOR]

Problem with this management and this fanbase is they overvalue their own players. I think that's why Siakam and OG are still here.

OG Anunoby is not going to get you 3 1st and a good young player. He's not going to get you that. Gotta be "realistic"

Siakam doesn't have that kind of value either. OKC got a ton for Paul George. Siakam is not Paul George. He is not going to get you that kind of return. I'd be happy if they get someone like Nembhardt or Hunter for him.

Also, the management made everything worse by trading their 1st next year. If they didn't do that we'd still have our first next year and we'd probably have a prospect like Ausar Thompson on Anthony Black on this team. But hey they chose to compete in he play in(for what?) over picking high in the lottery. Very smart.

Buyers decide the value of players not the sellers. That's the thing. They might hope value will rise but managements are not stupid.

[MixxAOR]

[MixxAOR]

it's like watching a shitty rerun

[Yuri Gagarin]

The purpose of keeping Pascal would be to resign him and trade him for a better package down the line when the fear of him walking isn't there for the team trading for him.

A better package? A little less shitty? and 45 m in crappy players to match thatll clog up the payroll again

scotty wont be pissed as long as we get some young guys with promise to play around him as captain

[LJ2]

A better package? A little less shitty? and 45 m in crappy players to match thatll clog up the payroll again

scotty wont be pissed as long as we get some young guys with promise to play around him as captain

There's young guys with promise (Griffin/Mathurin etc.) and then there's just young guys.

There will at some point be a team desperate enough to offer up something they really don't want to for Siakam. If it doesn't happen during this off season the best you can hope for is to secure the extension and wait for things to go badly for one of those desperate teams.