Everything 2018 Off Season

[Shaolin Fantastic]

So....you didnt like Casey ...
You don't think much of Ujiri..
You don’t like the players....
You don’t care for anyone’s opinions on this forum save for your own..

Why are you so invested in this team,it’s players and fans, and in this forum if it’s all so pathetic ?

1.) Most hardcore fans were fed up with Casey after the first couple of years, that's not unique to me.

2.) I do like Masai and I probably liked him more than any of you did when we first got him. I'm Nigerian and always support my fellow countrymen. That being said I'm not going to ignore mistakes he's made or ignore the fact that I think he's too conservative in his dealings.

3.) Not sure where I said I don't like the players. I like every single player on this team, some more than others but there's no player on the team that I dislike. My favourite is probably either OG or DeRozan. That doesn't prevent me from realizing though that a rebuild is in order (which wouldn't mean everyone has to go btw: Wright, Poeltl, Siakam, OG and maybe FVV/Powell could be part of that as well).

4.) I do care about people's opinions, I just disagree with certain people's opinions on different topics.

I don't think the team, the players, the fans or the forum are pathetic. Stop questioning my fandom for this team all the time. Just because I don't agree Boston's trash when they clearly aren't, acknowledge that we aren't in any sort of position to win a title (or even the East really) and think we should rebuild, doesn't mean that I hate the team. I love this team and want to see it be in championship position one day.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

It’s counterintuitive, but the best time for the Raps to move big pieces is always during the regular season, when our stars look like studs and the team is rolling. And that’s when other teams are panicking and scrambling, just to make the playoffs. GMs have short term memories and can always talk themselves into doing something desperate to save their jobs. Mid-season, when hope springs eternal, is when Masai needs to strike.

The problem is that will never actually happen.

Your logic is sound but it breaks down with the fact that if we're like .700 at the deadline, Masai isn't going to trade away key players. That's why the rebuilding moves have to be made in the offseason.

Also teams typically have more cap space/flexibility to work with in the summer than during the season, which actually makes it easier to get a deal done at that stage.

[Demographic Shift]

1.) Most hardcore fans were fed up with Casey after the first couple of years, that's not unique to me.

2.) I do like Masai and I probably liked him more than any of you did when we first got him. I'm Nigerian and always support my fellow countrymen. That being said I'm not going to ignore mistakes he's made or ignore the fact that I think he's too conservative in his dealings.

3.) Not sure where I said I don't like the players. I like every single player on this team, some more than others but there's no player on the team that I dislike. My favourite is probably either OG or DeRozan. That doesn't prevent me from realizing though that a rebuild is in order (which wouldn't mean everyone has to go btw: Wright, Poeltl, Siakam, OG and maybe FVV/Powell could be part of that as well).

4.) I do care about people's opinions, I just disagree with certain people's opinions on different topics.

I don't think the team, the players, the fans or the forum are pathetic. Stop questioning my fandom for this team all the time. Just because I don't agree Boston's trash when they clearly aren't, acknowledge that we aren't in any sort of position to win a title (or even the East really) and think we should rebuild, doesn't mean that I hate the team. I love this team and want to see it be in championship position one day.

You are one angry man.....

[golden]

The problem is that will never actually happen.

Your logic is sound but it breaks down with the fact that if we're like .700 at the deadline, Masai isn't going to trade away key players. That's why the rebuilding moves have to be made in the offseason.

Also teams typically have more cap space/flexibility to work with in the summer than during the season, which actually makes it easier to get a deal done at that stage.

I know. That's why it's counter-intuitive. Masai seemed to be big on innovation when he talked about hiring Nurse. Breaking up a team with a near .700 winning percentage would require maximum cajones, but ultimately it would net the best return for assets, given that our 'stars' usually destroy their trade value during the playoffs.... and that's fresh in the minds of trading partners heading into the off-season.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

I know. That's why it's counter-intuitive. Masai seemed to be big on innovation when he talked about hiring Nurse. Breaking up a team with a near .700 winning percentage would require maximum cajones, but ultimately it would net the best return for assets, given that our 'stars' usually destroy their trade value during the playoffs.... and that's fresh in the minds of trading partners heading into the off-season.

Definitely agree. DeMar usually looks like a damn superstar around February lol. There's a reason why he keeps getting all-star selections and starts.

[JimiCliff]

Something to keep in mind, which has been pointed out by writers now and again - Masai likes to win trades. This is hard to do, and requires prodigious patience.

[Scraptor]

You are one angry man.....

Shaolin can be angry at times, but his response was well-reasoned and sound. Questioning the team's direction doesn't mean you're not a fan, just like questioning the leadership of a country doesn't mean you're not a patriot.

But god help us all if this is another uneventful offseason, because we will be going in circles with the same debates for four months.

[Scraptor]

Something to keep in mind, which has been pointed out by writers now and again - Masai likes to win trades. This is hard to do, and requires prodigious patience.

Making trades is a balancing act between "winning" and actually getting a transaction executed. Patience is great unless you are so intent on winning that you let opportunities sail past. Then it isn't about patience but aversion to risk (of losing).

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Making trades is a balancing act between "winning" and actually getting a transaction executed. Patience is great unless you are so intent on winning that you let opportunities sail past. Then it isn't about patience but aversion to risk (of losing).

This. You do have to take a risk at times, and yes that does mean potentially losing a trade, but it also means potentially coming away with a deal that you would not have made otherwise.

For example the Celtics trade for Kyrie. A lot of people thought that was a terrible trade for Boston at the time considering how much they gave up, and all Cleveland has to show for it really is Clarkson, Nance and Collin Sexton while Boston have an all-star point guard in his prime.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Shaolin can be angry at times, but his response was well-reasoned and sound. Questioning the team's direction doesn't mean you're not a fan, just like questioning the leadership of a country doesn't mean you're not a patriot.

But god help us all if this is another uneventful offseason, because we will be going in circles with the same debates for four months.

Thanks. Not sure how that particular post was angry; I just addressed the points he brought up.

[Barolt]

Making trades is a balancing act between "winning" and actually getting a transaction executed. Patience is great unless you are so intent on winning that you let opportunities sail past. Then it isn't about patience but aversion to risk (of losing).

But the idea of trying to win the trades is saying that an opportunity for a trade that you're not going to win isn't really an opportunity.

[white men can't jump]

Shaolin can be angry at times, but his response was well-reasoned and sound. Questioning the team's direction doesn't mean you're not a fan, just like questioning the leadership of a country doesn't mean you're not a patriot.

But god help us all if this is another uneventful offseason, because we will be going in circles with the same debates for four months.

More like the next 12 months...

God, I'm already so apathetic for next season. I really hope we see a big move this summer.

[JimiCliff]

Making trades is a balancing act between "winning" and actually getting a transaction executed. Patience is great unless you are so intent on winning that you let opportunities sail past. Then it isn't about patience but aversion to risk (of losing).

Sure. It's obviously a very complex thing.

[JimiCliff]

But something that very rarely goes into people's calculus is the benefit of continuity. So in a theoretical trade where the exchange of talent is more or less equal, and all else is equal, you're going to experience a net loss due to the continuity that you've sacrificed. One reason (of many) why insisting on winning trades is a good strategy.

[planetmars]

So his two biggest moves were both mistakes?

Is that not somewhat of a cause for concern?

Signing Carroll and trading for Ibaka weren't his two biggest moves. I wouldn't really even say that Ibaka was a mistake. Ross was kind of useless and the pick could have been Kuzma but we never know. Ibaka was a need. We needed a PF badly. I mean we were running out guys like 2Pat and Scola at that spot. Masai's original target was Millsap but Atlanta kept the value so high that nobody was able to get him.

Carroll was erased. We gave a pick to do it but that would have been the 29th pick in this last draft. I don't see anybody in the draft that will have that impact. And again the cap hit was completely erased with the trade.

His biggest moves in my opinion were the Gay trade and the Lowry signing (the first time around). He nailed those.

Outside of the Carroll signing his other biggest mistake in my opinion was not firing Casey after the Wizards sweep. Maybe that was a major miscalculation. Not sure. But it was definitely a mistake. Case for better or for worse kept getting better every year and lead us to 59 wins.