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2012 Draft Thursday, June 28th: Raptors select Terence Ross

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  • thead wrote: View Post
    DeRozan needs about 10lbs of SOLID muscle added in order to move to the 3
    However, adding muscle neither helps his still developing jump shot nor his stature (he is at the smaller end of the prototypical SFs). And then there is defense. I think the better option (unless he is traded) is to give DD another year at the SG and either trade for or draft the SF.


    • Another Euro player that we've never even heard of...
      Last edited by unclesam; Thu May 31, 2012, 12:55 PM.


      • unclesam wrote: View Post
        Another Euro player that we've never even heard of.
        Yeah because international players really don't know how to play basketball...

        oh wait...Tony Parker, Boris Diaw, Manu Ginobli, Tim Duncan, Tiago Splitter, Patty Mills, Corey Joseph... I wonder how that team is playing right now....
        For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar


        • RandomGuy wrote: View Post
          I've seen all world U19 performances of US team, Jeremy Lamb has freaky potential. You don't need to be basketball pro to notice that.
          This is true and for the first time in a while he did not have Kemba so he had the ball quite a bit...and it was a short tournament with USA on the jersey. The 2 negatives that most come up in his scouting reports is passivity/loses focus and doesnt like to get into the paint. With that long reach he should be a terror on defense but being passive isnt going to be nice to see or be. Definitely not what a coach like Casey would like. His personal interviews should provide better insight into the above. The inside/to the rim non-play is probably because of lack of muscle/weight.


          • I'm onboard with the obvious sentiment that if any of Beal, MKG, or Barnes drop, you take them. But assuming those three, Davis, Drummond and Robinson are off the board, I'd go with Jones at this point. He's high ceiling, low floor. In other words, a gamble. But of all the possible roster combinations that could come out of this draftpick, a Valanciunas/Bargnani/PJ3 frontcourt is the most intriguing. Imagine for a moment that Valanciunas reaches his potential as a franchise center, Bargs becomes the guy that we saw for the first 13 games this year, and PJ3 reaches his potential as a SF who can create his own shot, handle the ball, pass, defend his position competently, and run the floor. 21 feet of matchup nightmares. Takes a lot of pressure off the backcourt at both ends, in terms of opening up space offensively, and providing a really intimidating interior defense.

            But on the other hand, as I said, he's got a low floor, too. There is bust potential. I just think it's a gamble that is worth taking with a draft pick that's not going to offer any sure safe picks.


            • PJIII. Toolsy guy with questions about his character who would otherwise go much higher but teams are leery of the downside. Sounds a lot like Amare Stoudemire....

              Having said that, I really like Lamb's game and would take him if he's there. He'd instantly be the best wing on the roster. If Derozan can't play the SF, then you move him for other assets.


              • As much as Terrence Jones/PJ3 may intrigue me, and excite people with their highlights, they are not what the Raps need right now. Lamb is the kind of guy that the Raps need, as he has some outside game that we desperately lack (both shooting off the dribble, and from stand-still situations).
                Last edited by JYFelony; Thu May 31, 2012, 01:57 PM.


                • I'll be happy with any of PJ3, Lillard or Terrence Jones


                  • I think Kendall Marshall can be a solid backup PG right out of the gate. He and Jose would offer great distribution and consistency - Meanwhile, Marshall would definitely be ready for the lead role by the time Jose was ready for the backup spot (2 years?).

                    Interesting thought moving Demar to SF ... Although his body may not be there, that would open us up to offer some coin to OJ Mayo to start at the SG spot.
                    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.


                    • Ranking top NBA draft prospects

                      Insider Article

                      For the last nine NBA drafts I have covered for ESPN and ESPN Radio, I have put together my own big board. It's just a list of players, not based upon draft needs, but rather upon my own evaluations, formed with the help of several NBA executives and college coaches. It's not a reflection of where I necessarily think these players will be drafted, but rather where I would draft them if given the choice, after having seen them play on the college level.

                      Chad Ford Top 100
                      Looking for more NBA draft coverage? Check out NBA draft guru Chad Ford's Top 100 prospects, updated weekly on ESPN Insider.

                      • Top 100
                      • NBA Draft Blog

                      There are three factors I try to keep in mind when I put together my rankings in terms of how players' college careers can affect their draft stocks:

                      1. Some players are, in my opinion, overvalued by NBA teams because they come from advantageous college situations, like Derrick Williams was last year and Joe Alexander in 2008.

                      2. Some players are undervalued because they were on college teams that struggled (poor guard play, bad chemistry, etc.) or because they were playing out of position in college.

                      3. Even more are hard to peg because they are so young and so early in their development that ultimately it is their work ethic that will truly determine their NBA future.

                      Here's my current ranking of this year's NBA draft prospects. If you're interested in seeing how my list has evolved throughout the season, check out my previous editions from December and February.

                      1. Anthony Davis, Kentucky Wildcats
                      Think Tyson Chandler on defense, with some Tim Duncan on offense. With great timing on blocking shots, solid ball-handling on the perimeter and an improving jump shot, there seems to be a limitless ceiling for Davis at this point.
                      2. Bradley Beal, Florida Gators
                      Beal is a prototype 2 who wasn't even run off of many screens in his one college season. He seemed to take a huge leap from the beginning to the end of the season in terms of his off-the-dribble game. He should translate into an NBA shooting guard right away, especially with his athleticism and range.
                      3. Andre Drummond, Connecticut Huskies
                      Drummond is a freak athlete who has a way to go to be a starting big man in the NBA. On the other hand, he has massive upside, an incredible body and great spring. There is a DeAndre Jordan quality to how poorly he has developed thus far on offense yet how physically imposing he will someday be, but if the right team takes him and he buys in, he can be better than Jordan.
                      4. Harrison Barnes, North Carolina Tar Heels
                      Smooth and steady, Barnes is not the next Kobe Bryant, but he is still a solid NBA wing for years to come. His game lacks the burst to create a lot of his own shots, but he can post, will guard some and really made strides in being a solid 3-point shooter.
                      5. Royce White, Iowa State Cyclones
                      White is similar in many ways to former New York Knick Anthony Mason. He is an undersized 4 who can handle, shoot some, rebound and score in the low post. He has been very open about his anxiety disorder, as well as his transgressions that lead to him leaving Minnesota. He is a risk, but he can also be a dominant player, one who took over at midseason after two years of rust wore off.

                      6. Meyers Leonard, Illinois Fighting Illini
                      Leonard is a freak athlete, with a perfect frame to play 15 years inside in the NBA. Leonard is Andrew Bynum-like in his goofiness, but even though he's just a kid, his body and skill set are those of a man. He can play the high and low post, guard ball screens, shoot, and has good hands. Is he a killer? I'm not sold, frankly, but man, the potential is there.
                      7. Perry Jones, Baylor Bears
                      He dealt with a ton of hype and pressure at Baylor, where he played a lot of center and spent the rest of the time at the 4 spot. He is a 4 or a 3 in the NBA -- one who had moments during college where he looked the part of a super talent.
                      8. Damian Lillard, Weber State Wildcats
                      A scoring point guard who is best off of ball screens, Lillard benefits from both the lack of great point guards in this year's draft and the need for a scoring PG to play right away.
                      [+] Enlarge
                      Geoff Burke/US Presswire
                      At worst, Zeller can be an effective backup big man in the NBA.
                      9. Tyler Zeller, North Carolina Tar Heels
                      A 7-foot running big man who can hit an 18-footer, Zeller needs to develop more than just a jump hook, but for now, he is actually ahead of the big man learning curve on offense. At a minimum, Zeller is a backup big man who can stretch his range to 22 feet.
                      10. Dion Waiters, Syracuse Orange
                      With no position per se, Waiters should have the same role in the pros as in college, where he came in and changed the tempo. He is a dynamic Dwyane Wade-type of driver who will be a streaky shooter from NBA range, but he can get to the rim and is ideal for playing the role of an off-the-bench dynamo.
                      11. Jared Sullinger, Ohio State Buckeyes
                      A lot of people, myself included, have been down on Sullinger for how he's played against NBA length, which is a fair criticism. My guess, though, is that while he is likely much shorter than the 6-foot-9 he's listed as (he always looked 6-7 to me), he also played out of position as a center and should continue to develop his legs, not just lose weight. While the worst-case scenario is Michael Sweetney, the best-case possibility is Elton Brand.
                      12. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Kentucky Wildcats
                      MKG is very young and everyone loves his competitive drive, but before you take him No. 2 overall, realize that he played a lot of 4 in college, has a funky jumper and probably translates into a defensive specialist who can rebound and score in transition, but not really wow anyone on offense. If he's closer to 6-5 (instead of 6-7, his listed height at UK), which is shooting guard size, then what is he? A great kid to have on your team who will fight and scrap and become a double-digit scorer, but not an NBA All-Star, and maybe not a consistent starter.
                      13. Arnett Moultrie, Mississippi State Bulldogs
                      Moultrie is a long, athletic 4 who looks the part of an NBA big. His ability to play out on the floor combined with his athletic gifts keep him in my top 15.
                      14. Terrence Ross, Washington Huskies
                      Ross is the best scoring 2 with legit size in this year's draft. Beal should eventually get there and may be a better athlete and pure shooter, but Ross gets you buckets.
                      15. Thomas Robinson, Kansas Jayhawks
                      A monster in college, Robinson is likely a rotation guy in the NBA at worst, a starting power forward at best. He has stretched his range to 20 feet and will finish above the rim, but he doesn't have the fluidity to be special in face-up opportunities in the league.
                      16. Jeremy Lamb, Connecticut Huskies
                      Smooth and effortless, Lamb could be a steal, or he could be a dud that teases you. He just needs to be on a team with great leadership and to change his body some.
                      17. Moe Harkless, St. John's Red Storm
                      I'm not totally sold on taking Kidd-Gilchrist ahead of Harkless, as Harkless has the scoring skill and perimeter ability that MKG lacks. Harkless does need to continue to improve his range, but as a 3 he has size, can rebound and definitely can score.
                      [+] Enlarge
                      Brian Spurlock/US PRESSWIRE
                      Rivers will likely be asked to be an impact scorer early in his NBA career.
                      18. Austin Rivers, Duke Blue Devils
                      Rivers is incredibly shifty off of ball screens and a very streaky shooter. He is likely to come off the bench and be called upon to score early in his NBA career. He can turn teammates off with some of his antics and shot selection, but he can get into the lane and has all the pro ball-screen scoring angles down pat. Rivers is not a point, but he might be a backup point, and while he doesn't finish enough above the rim, he does have some D-Wade to his game.
                      19. John Henson, North Carolina Tar Heels
                      A crazy-long face-up 4 who still hasn't put on the strength needed for the NBA, Henson has become a better and much more refined player over the course of his college career. He is so long he should eventually be able to guard Kevin Durant types as well as power forwards if he adds enough strength.
                      20. Terrence Jones, Kentucky Wildcats
                      Jones will have to switch positions from a face-up college 4 to an NBA 3 man, and despite his obvious talent, he is no lock to be an NBA starter. Jones' perimeter game is based mainly upon playing as a pick-and-pop 4 with a mismatch in college, and now he will be forced to play and defend on the wing. Additionally, although he matured during his two seasons in Kentucky, it was under the heavy-handed leadership of John Calipari in college, so his newfound freedom may not be a good thing in the pros. Jones is a very strong left-handed player who needs to really put time into developing a consistent jumper and buy into being a lockdown defender/rebounder if he wants to be more than an end-of-rotation guy in the NBA.
                      21. Fab Melo, Syracuse Orange
                      Melo made a magical improvement jump from Year 1 to Year 2, and he continues to improve his body. Melo is huge, he can shoot from 15, he can catch and is a basket protector.
                      22. Andrew Nicholson, St. Bonaventure Bonnies
                      Nicholson is super bright, skilled as a shooter and passer. He has tremendous feet and gigantic hands, but he is not really a great athlete in transition and his game has some small forward to it. Nicholson is a good shot-blocker who probably is best with a winning team where he can just fit in.
                      23. Jared Cunningham, Oregon State Beavers
                      Cunningham is an athletic guard few in the country have seen. He is a consistent jump shot away from being a lottery pick.
                      24. Jeffery Taylor, Vanderbilt Commodores
                      An amazing athlete who has worked to become a solid shooter from deep college range, Taylor has the reputation of an athlete who plays basketball, not a basketball player who is an athlete. He can finish above the rim, is an improved shooter and should play for a long time.
                      25. Scott Machado, Iona Gaels
                      Machado is an athletic point guard who can really create in transition or off of penetration. He changes the tempo of the game quite quickly and is a better shooter and athlete than Kendall Marshall, a better shooter than Tony Wroten and far more consistent a ball handler than Marquis Teague.
                      26. Kendall Marshall, North Carolina Tar Heels
                      A big point guard with superior vision, Marshall struggles to score and guard, and he needs to dramatically improve his body at the next level. Jay Williams has likened him to Andre Miller, but for Marshall to get to that level he'll need to score more and add a post-up game. Still, there are some similarities.
                      27. Darius Miller, Kentucky Wildcats
                      Miller is a 6-8 ego-free winner who can take and make big shots. Even though he doesn't have the scorer's mentality that others do, he has the skill to play in the league as a backup at the 1, 2 or 3.
                      28. Quincy Miller, Baylor Bears
                      Miller has range, length and looks the part of an NBA 3, but doesn't always play hard, isn't a good man-to-man defender and simply has some holes in his game. He is a solid talent who could be an NBA starter if he buys in.
                      29. Tony Wroten Jr., Washington Huskies
                      Wroten is an athletic point guard who can't shoot but has some of what it takes to be a starter in the NBA. When you really watch Wroten, whom no one guarded at Washington due to his poor shooting, you think he can use his athleticism and vision to be a good lead guard, but his team struggled to move the ball with him in the game, he sporadically defends and, although he can score at the rim, his free throw shooting is so poor that it limits his end-of-game effectiveness. If he sits behind a veteran point guard, buys in, works tirelessly on his jumper and uses his athletic gifts to defend, he could be a steal.
                      30. Tyshawn Taylor, Kansas Jayhawks
                      Taylor is an athletic scoring point guard who can guard and makes an ideal backup in the league.

                      • Kansas fans can save their hate mail for my evaluation of Robinson, as I wrote similar things about Tyler Hansbrough when he came out. Robinson was a great (not just good, but great) college player, but the NBA game turns him into a 4, so he is likely a starter on a bad team and a rotation guy on a good team.

                      • Marshall is intriguing because of his size and passing, but his inability to defend and score is problematic, especially in a backup role in which point guards are expected to pick up full court, and you mainly guard converted combo guards.

                      • White has the body and game to be a top-10 pick, but no one in the NBA is blind to his past, and White himself has been very open about his fight with an anxiety disorder. He was well-liked by teammates and coaches at Iowa State, but he may go in the mid-first round as much because of a fear over how he will react to the NBA lifestyle.

                      • Rivers has people in the NBA who love his toughness and ability to score, and others who have questions about his attitude. I feel like his game fits the NBA better than it did college, but the ball sticks in his hand so much that he'd better improve as a shooter or teammates will freeze him out.

                      • Barnes reminds me of Greg Monroe coming out a few years ago in that people had such heavy expectations for him going in that they failed to realize how much skill he has and how well he will consistently do in the NBA. Barnes is not a star, but he is a solid wing.
                      Some interesting rankings for sure, especially where MKG is placed. I don't think anyone questions Royce White's talent, but his concerns are really serious.


                      • thead wrote: View Post
                        Yeah because international players really don't know how to play basketball...

                        oh wait...Tony Parker, Boris Diaw, Manu Ginobli, Tim Duncan, Tiago Splitter, Patty Mills, Corey Joseph... I wonder how that team is playing right now....
                        Nice reply. Couldn't have said it any better myself.


                        • planetmars wrote: View Post
                          Here are his stats from that tourney:

                          He made the All Tournament team - but JV really stole the show.
                          I only watched the USA Lithuania game and was unimpressed with Lamb, I think he had good stats, but I guess I just didn't feel like he impacted the game. That said, it seems like he may be the BPA when we draft and i'm okay with that. I also could have been fooled by his t-mac eyes.

                          Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          Me, personally, I'd never take PJ3 in a million years but if BC takes him, sign me up.

                          I'd like to think that makes me a believer in his drafting abilities but it could also mean I am a biased fanboy - I'll go with however anyone interprets it.
                          Seems like double speak, or reverse irony. Either way, I dig it.

                          The Coach wrote: View Post

                          Major "tweaks" options:

                          A) Simple and probably been debated - every team that doesn't make the playoffs has an equal shot at every draft position. Put all of the teams in the machine and pull one out at a time.
                          Advantage - would make the draft lottery way more interesting and tanking wouldn't be a factor
                          Not a fan of this option simple because drafting becomes purely random I'd rather see something that uses positive incentive

                          The Coach wrote: View Post
                          B) As soon as you have been officially eliminated from the playoffs, start adding up your wins. The teams with the most wins after they have been eliminated can have the first pick and the team with the second amount of wins gets second pick and so on. You could also just rank the teams in order of their wins after elimination and put them in the currently used lottery ball system.
                          Advantage - every team is always competing, right to the end
                          Like this. And the fact that teams that are shittier are more likely to be eliminated earlier than teams that are better means that they have more games in which to get wins, which would even the playing field somewhat. There is/are already advantages/disadvantages in what conference you are in or strength of schedule so I don't by those as being valid criticism.

                          Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                          someone on here, cant remember who, had a two day tournament idea. that i think was the best idea i've heard so far. losing teams playing for something and ticket sales bringing in money for the league. whoever the original idea came from i salute you.

                          i like it because quitters would be at a disadvantage to turn it back on for a tournament.
                          slaw wrote: View Post
                          Think about this for a second. If you're a free agent with a team, what possible incentive do you have to play in this tournament? What if a team has legit injuries? They get doubly punished? You'd also be condemning truly bad teams who aren't tanking but just aren't any good. May as well just relegate them to another league.
                          What possible incentive does a free agent have with any time after they are mathematically eliminated from making the playoffs? The chance to bump their asking price! How often have we seen guys perform will in the playoffs or in the NCAA tourney and their stock inflates their value? An impending free agent who "shines in crunch time" could easily see his "market value" rise 2 mill per season.

                          I could see that teams who lose a key player to injury might see their stock dip, but how is it more unfair than the current system whereby a team that is already is perennially good, but loses a key player to injury, gets a high draft pick, aka how the Spurs got Duncan.

                          The fact of the matter is that the current system INCENTIVIZES LOSING, intentionally or not, unconsciously or not, it still does. In a sport where literally 1 elite level player guarantee's a playoff appearance (and probably multiple trips to the conference finals) I think this not an ideal situation. Unless you have a panel of NBA judges who aren't biased or corruptable who would determine the draft order based on a perfect balance of merit, performance, past history and a number of other factors, EVERY draft selection method will have some negative effects. That being said I'll take a system that doesn't incentivize losing.
                          Also it will encourage better management and scouting. Not really sure how you would change the draft to stop taking.
                          Last edited by ezz_bee; Thu May 31, 2012, 03:00 PM.
                          "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                          "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                          "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon


                          • Sometimes I wonder if the Raps get Rudy Gay and he ends doing awesome for them, if I would ever buy his jersey...What kind of a man buys a Rudy Gay jersey? I wonder how much money he's lost on jersey sales because of his name?
                            Eh follow my TWITTER!


                            • How about this; the worst 3 teams in the league have a 0% chance to draft top 3. The other 11 non playoff teams have a weighted lottery for the top 3 picks.

                              After the top 3 picks, there is another weighted lottery to determine the rest of the picks.

                              This would ensure no teams actually tank to become the worst. In reality all of the bottom 5-6 teams would be trying to do their best because a few game losing streak could kill their chances at a top 3 pick.

                              There would still be some late season attempts by seeds (inverse standings) 5-10 to drop a few games, but there would be no incentive to bomb a season like charlotte did this year.


                              • If MKG drops, you let him drop even further.