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  • thead wrote: View Post
    I get it... people were expecting radical change. Steve Nash was going to parachute in and using his Captain Canada powers magically lure Andre Igoudala into our starting 3 role. I completely understand the sentiment. After a few years in the wilderness I expected some serious upgrades. The thing is though I was wrong to ever expect it because the rules of free agency have not changed. If you look where all the free agents go they are like moths to a flame. NYK, BKY, MIA, BOS, LAC, LAL, DAL are already good teams. Nobody wants to go to a losing situation when they have the choice. We thought we could skip ahead a few steps but I, and I think everyone else that thought that way was wrong.

    By position

    PG: Nobody here denies that Kyle Lowry is a SERIOUS upgrade to Jose Calderon in our defensive system. Kyle Lowry was on pace for an all star season before his infection. Jose Calderon coming off the bench is really where he always should have been. He will be able to dismantle the second unit of other teams, and keep the offense going when others hit the bench. Nobody will dispute Calderon is better than Bayless in every way that isn't defense.

    SG: The natural progression of DeMar DeRozan entering a contract a year will be big. Adding Terrence Ross into the mix is already an upgrade to Gary Forbes and he hasn't even played an NBA game yet. Consider this an upgrade.

    SF: Kleiza is a very good player. People roast him but try going through microfracture surgery sometime and tell me how your first season back goes. Watched him in international play and he is shooting up a storm, has great bounce again and moving his feet really well. Upgrade based solely on health alone. Landry Fields, in a player whose impact will not always be seen on the box score. He is as we have all including Colangelo, overpaid. If you look at some of the contracts handed out..(Lopez max deal) (Hump 12million per) (Green 10million after heart surgery) if you don't overpay you don't get free agents...period. Fields is also an upgrade over James Johnson not that he will put up better stats but he won't make the same mistakes.

    PF: Ed Davis looks great...and if doesn't play that way we drafted an animal in Quincy Acy that would love to eat his minutes. Bargnani took the summer off from the National team (which if you know Bargnani is huge deal for him) In order to ensure he is perfectly healthy this year. He looks like a borderline all star this year, and we saw the character of the man when he limped off the court in Utah. By virtue of health (Bargnani) Improvement (Davis) and Grit (Acy) this position is improved.

    C: JV17 will have an immeadiate impact. You can't play with his motor and not have an effect on your team. Gray is back as a stop gap, and Amir can play the 5 in small ball scenarios which the league is gravitating towards.
    Consider this an upgrade.


    NOW...to those saying that we shouldn't be happy with a first round playoff exit this year. You are just plain wrong. We should happy with exactly that. Because having run up stairs a few times in my day I know if you try and skip too many steps you fall flat on your face. If we manage to put together a good show in a first round playoff exit, suddenly free agents will go...hmmmm team is on the way up...If I joined I might be able to take them to the next level. Your own potential RFAs think, this team has a future and will still pay me, and won't be looking to bolt ala Batum. WE CAN NOT SKIP THE STEP THAT BOTH CHICAGO AND INDIANA went through which is knocking on the playoff door telling everyone we are here to stay and attracting better talent in the 2012/2013 offseason...which we will again have up to 17 million in flexibility.
    +10000 Way to shut up the non believers

    Comment


    • thead wrote: View Post
      I get it... people were expecting radical change. Steve Nash was going to parachute in and using his Captain Canada powers magically lure Andre Igoudala into our starting 3 role. I completely understand the sentiment. After a few years in the wilderness I expected some serious upgrades. The thing is though I was wrong to ever expect it because the rules of free agency have not changed. If you look where all the free agents go they are like moths to a flame. NYK, BKY, MIA, BOS, LAC, LAL, DAL are already good teams. Nobody wants to go to a losing situation when they have the choice. We thought we could skip ahead a few steps but I, and I think everyone else that thought that way was wrong.

      By position

      PG: Nobody here denies that Kyle Lowry is a SERIOUS upgrade to Jose Calderon in our defensive system. Kyle Lowry was on pace for an all star season before his infection. Jose Calderon coming off the bench is really where he always should have been. He will be able to dismantle the second unit of other teams, and keep the offense going when others hit the bench. Nobody will dispute Calderon is better than Bayless in every way that isn't defense.

      SG: The natural progression of DeMar DeRozan entering a contract a year will be big. Adding Terrence Ross into the mix is already an upgrade to Gary Forbes and he hasn't even played an NBA game yet. Consider this an upgrade.

      SF: Kleiza is a very good player. People roast him but try going through microfracture surgery sometime and tell me how your first season back goes. Watched him in international play and he is shooting up a storm, has great bounce again and moving his feet really well. Upgrade based solely on health alone. Landry Fields, in a player whose impact will not always be seen on the box score. He is as we have all including Colangelo, overpaid. If you look at some of the contracts handed out..(Lopez max deal) (Hump 12million per) (Green 10million after heart surgery) if you don't overpay you don't get free agents...period. Fields is also an upgrade over James Johnson not that he will put up better stats but he won't make the same mistakes.

      PF: Ed Davis looks great...and if doesn't play that way we drafted an animal in Quincy Acy that would love to eat his minutes. Bargnani took the summer off from the National team (which if you know Bargnani is huge deal for him) In order to ensure he is perfectly healthy this year. He looks like a borderline all star this year, and we saw the character of the man when he limped off the court in Utah. By virtue of health (Bargnani) Improvement (Davis) and Grit (Acy) this position is improved.

      C: JV17 will have an immeadiate impact. You can't play with his motor and not have an effect on your team. Gray is back as a stop gap, and Amir can play the 5 in small ball scenarios which the league is gravitating towards.
      Consider this an upgrade.


      NOW...to those saying that we shouldn't be happy with a first round playoff exit this year. You are just plain wrong. We should happy with exactly that. Because having run up stairs a few times in my day I know if you try and skip too many steps you fall flat on your face. If we manage to put together a good show in a first round playoff exit, suddenly free agents will go...hmmmm team is on the way up...If I joined I might be able to take them to the next level. Your own potential RFAs think, this team has a future and will still pay me, and won't be looking to bolt ala Batum. WE CAN NOT SKIP THE STEP THAT BOTH CHICAGO AND INDIANA went through which is knocking on the playoff door telling everyone we are here to stay and attracting better talent in the 2012/2013 offseason...which we will again have up to 17 million in flexibility.
      Not gonna lie this may be one of the best things I've read on these forums

      Comment


      • Craiger wrote: View Post
        I don't want to give the impression I'm discounting anything. I'm saying there was a real possibility he was going to leave. This is not some hidden possibility that came out after the fact (as Matt52 seems to want me to believe). It was talked about by the media, by Bosh, by Colangelo, by fans, by people not even affiliated by the Raptors. It was talked about as early as the summer of 2008 when New York started freeing up cap space for the 2010 offseason and Bosh turned down his first extension offers

        Maybe Colangelo thought he could keep him, maybe Bosh swindled him, maybe Colangelo wasn't being offered what he wanted, maybe he didn't care and thought the team would be good enough without him. I don't know.

        But that risk was there. Colangelo, for whatever reason he may have had, took the risk. In the end he lost on his bet.

        As NoBan said initially, this shouldn't be viewed as a excuse, it should be viewed as a black mark. A GM is still a GM and the decision they make, for better or worse, effect the team.

        (I also want to note. Bosh isn't the first all-star calibre player in the NBA to leave a team at free agency. He's not even the first all-star calibre raptor to do it (although McGrady's situation was under a different CBA). So this isn't some sort of unique event. Denver or Utah may have learned from Toronto and been more proactive, but that doesn't excuse Toronto from not being more proactive themselves)
        1) I will not argue that there wasn't a possibilty that Bosh would leave. Of course there was. But I believe I provided some rationale why BC may have believed (mainly due to a graceful reading of Bosh's personality and undoubetedly his "commitment" re the s&t...and this is something BC openly spoke about and Bosh did not dispute and may well have confirmed this himself in the many media scrums he had) that regardless of Bosh's decision the Raptor's would have got a somewhat decent return. Never equitable but decent,

        2) Yes, both Bosh and BC confirmed publicly that Bosh would like to test f/a and if the Raps were on the outside would assist/cooperate on a s&t. Him imposing Miami on the Raps was not cooperating in my view.

        3) Yes, Bosh did turn down the extension and but I believe I provide a rationale for why BC decided (above) to go all the way to f/a...he believed he was covered. Bosh was really a weasel and yes the Raptors paid for it. But to crucify BC for giving another human based on his conversations and evaluation of the man, making an informed calculation and then getting shivved is a bit harsh dont you think? I suppose there can be 2 points of view on this but I am ok with accepting someone's word on an issue fully knowing that both parties are aware of the stakes.

        4) Yes, "BC lost the bet". I dont believe BC will be doing the same again (and that is unfortunate). The shake hands concept doesnt quite work all the time. I prefer to give BC a pass on this event and rather think poorly of Mr Bosh.

        5) Black marks and mistakes? ... never mind the "those infallible amongst us..." line but are you sure other GM's do not make mistakes of various levels of serious consequence?

        6) re the last para. I am drawing a bit of a blank, can you provide me with a similar circumstance (like Bosh) since the last CBA (05-06) of a player who left under similar circumstances and the gm of team out-performed BC in return of assets. My impression is that this was a first-off application by agents to take advantage of what was going to occur in 2010. That surreptitious methods including going back on an understanding were used is the major reason for my opposition to blaming BC entirely for the Bosh fiasco.

        As you and others feel otherwise, I do believe many more feel as I do on this issue. As I have mentioned before, this is a do-over for BC. Many dont get the chance. In my view he has another year to show that tangible progress has been made with the team. My own measurement is that it must be young, talented, well coached, with a ceiling/upward trajectory and showing sustainability not just in talent but in line with good cap management. This inevitability leads to the playoffs (yes I didnt say championship!...but considering our recent history I shall take it a step at a time). If not, I shall be happy to see a change....and inevitably the angst with the choice of replacement!!

        Comment


        • In regards to calling for BCs head...

          I like him, I think he is a savvy business guy.

          I don't think he should be fired today.

          I DO THINK there has to be SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT this year. If we aren't knocking on at least a 40 win season (Just shy of 500 ball), and competing for 6th 7th or 8th seed, than as much as I like the man I sorta feel like he has had his chance, and a second chance.

          ON THE OTHER HAND...

          we are finally rebuilding the right way. we have the right coach. In the previous drafts all of which seem to lack superstars to this date we have picked up a solid player each year. We are ridding ourselves of character issues (Johnson) and players that don't want to accept their role (Bayless, who will make an excellent sixth man the day he finally GETS it) We are adding players with grit, character, and solid basketball IQs.

          Some have said MLSE isn't willing to spend. Truth is they can and would be willing to go into the tax 70million plus if we can put together a product worth it. But they and Colangelo have said you build the team organically and once you are ready to take that step is when you spend the money. I'm not a GM, nor do I play one on TV but that sounds like it makes sense to me. They will not go the Brooklyn or Knicks way of buy our way in and sort it out after. I think teams built that way are asking to implode anyway. If you doubt that assessment look at what the Knicks and Nets are going to pay in tax come 2015.
          For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

          Comment


          • thead wrote: View Post
            Some have said MLSE isn't willing to spend. Truth is they can and would be willing to go into the tax 70million plus if we can put together a product worth it. But they and Colangelo have said you build the team organically and once you are ready to take that step is when you spend the money. I'm not a GM, nor do I play one on TV but that sounds like it makes sense to me. They will not go the Brooklyn or Knicks way of buy our way in and sort it out after. I think teams built that way are asking to implode anyway. If you doubt that assessment look at what the Knicks and Nets are going to pay in tax come 2015.
            lots of money in the playoffs

            Comment


            • Miekenstien wrote: View Post
              lots of money in the playoffs
              If what you mean is getting into the playoffs translates into more money..one would think this should lead to a profit. Apparently not true in every case. Mr Ariston owner of the Heat said recently that the Heat lost money inspite of going all the way. I suppose one can pay themselves a healthy salary and bonuses (especially for Riley) or do other accounting magic tricks. This is pro sports after all.

              Comment


              • Bendit wrote: View Post
                If what you mean is getting into the playoffs translates into more money..one would think this should lead to a profit. Apparently not true in every case. Mr Ariston owner of the Heat said recently that the Heat lost money inspite of going all the way. I suppose one can pay themselves a healthy salary and bonuses (especially for Riley) or do other accounting magic tricks. This is pro sports after all.
                i think that he is talking ticket revenue and food sales. i doubt he is taking into account tv deals, jersey sales and all the peripheral monies. just my opinion though, obviously i haven't seen the books.

                Comment


                • Call me crazy but I think Lowry has a good chance to become an all star this year. The guy can score and dish it out. Last year before the all start break he was averaging nearly 16 and 8.

                  Also, if we can get a good player via a Calderon trade, I can see this team competing for a playoff spot next year. This team is already good defensively and with the additions we've certainly improved on both sides of the courts.

                  Comment


                  • matt wrote: View Post
                    Call me crazy but I think Lowry has a good chance to become an all star this year. The guy can score and dish it out. Last year before the all start break he was averaging nearly 16 and 8.

                    Also, if we can get a good player via a Calderon trade, I can see this team competing for a playoff spot next year. This team is already good defensively and with the additions we've certainly improved on both sides of the courts.
                    Well, I hope Lowry can be an All-Star next year, but it's gonna be pretty hard for him to make the All-star roster when he has such big competition. That would be mainly Williams, John Wall, Irving, and Rose (if he come back and plays well). With that much competition in the point guard position, I think he'll be realistically a borderline all-star. I really hope Lowry can prove me wrong and just have a blowout season! I would be even more amazing if both Lowry and Barg can be All-stars, but I think that wet dream is pushing it

                    Comment


                    • Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post
                      Well, I hope Lowry can be an All-Star next year, but it's gonna be pretty hard for him to make the All-star roster when he has such big competition. That would be mainly Williams, John Wall, Irving, and Rose (if he come back and plays well). With that much competition in the point guard position, I think he'll be realistically a borderline all-star. I really hope Lowry can prove me wrong and just have a blowout season! I would be even more amazing if both Lowry and Barg can be All-stars, but I think that wet dream is pushing it
                      i think that he has to beat out kyrie. wall' hype has died down and he would really have to do some winning/great play to get back in the conversation. i think the east is williams/rondo/irving right now at the pg. for the ny fans we can pretend that chubchub is great too with a chance to make the team. haha.

                      if lowry can come out and lead this team to a respectable record he might be a coaches decision addition. i think rondo and williams are in for sure.

                      Comment


                      • Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                        i think that he has to beat out kyrie. wall' hype has died down and he would really have to do some winning/great play to get back in the conversation. i think the east is williams/rondo/irving right now at the pg. for the ny fans we can pretend that chubchub is great too with a chance to make the team. haha.

                        if lowry can come out and lead this team to a respectable record he might be a coaches decision addition. i think rondo and williams are in for sure.
                        I think Wall will surprise people next year especially when the team doesn't have as many knuckleheads in it anymore and actually have very good veteran/talented players in its roster (mainly Nene, Okafor, and Beal). Wall probably won't make the All-star game either, but I think he'll have a much better year than his previous years. Kyrie is kinda iffy for me right now. I think he can continue to improve upon his impressive rookie year. If he can up his PPG a bit more and up his APG up to maybe 7-8, I think he has a decent chance at the All-star game. Yea, Felton is pretty chubby now, so no chance. I really want Kyle Lowry to succeed and become an All-star caliber point guard, but I think we would have to get everyone in Canada to vote for him :P

                        Comment


                        • Lin is most likely getting the most votes for All Star PG... lucky he's in the west!

                          Kyle Lowry 2013 East All Star PG!

                          Andrea Bargnani is the 2012 ORlando All Star man
                          TORONTOOOOOO RAPTORSSSSSS

                          Comment


                          • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            Do you mean 10-15 wins better than 23 wins based on 66 or 82 game season?

                            Given raps won one more game in 16 less games played I am going to assume you meant 66 games - correct if wrong.

                            Assuming health I think Raps could manage 41 wins which is what 10 plus wins in an 82 game season would equate to.
                            Haha.. I knew someone would ask that. I think we'll have 10-15 more wins than last year. Period.

                            Which means 33-38 games won, which is a huge improvement. I think a .500 season is being overly optimistic.. (I know we're talking about 3 wins here) but put it this way, I don't see us winning half our games. A little less than half is a real possibility though.

                            I still see this as year 2 of a 3-year rebuilding phase before this team gets competitive. We're much more talented than last year no question, but we're also very young. I think we'll be inconsistent like any other young team. While true that last year our guys caught on to Casey's system, there's 4-5 new guys that know nothing about that system and two of them are starters. We also have at least 2 guys who will be hitting the rookie wall at the 50-game mark (or so) as they'll be on the receiving end of what I expect to be fairly significant minutes.

                            I think 33-38 wins is pretty reasonable, and builds on last season. Two years ago we won 27% of our games, and drafted a player that we didn't get to use and basically went into the next season with a coaching upgrade. The result was we won 35% of our games, which is a great improvement considering no pre-season. Now we have the same coach, but a whole bunch of new and young players. I think an estimate of another 8-10% improvement is pretty reasonable.
                            your pal,
                            ebrian

                            Comment


                            • Assuming JV and TR aren't busts, I would assume we become a competitive team and make the playoffs as the 7th or 8th seed in the 2013-2014 season, and if they are as good as advertised, then we're looking at 5+ years of not only making the playoffs but being contenders in the East for at least half a decade until salary demands get too high and we have to part ways with some of the talent.
                              your pal,
                              ebrian

                              Comment


                              • I hope everyone is thrilled with Lowry, because according to this ESPN article, we were in the thick (possibly lead?) for the Lin sweepstakes on July 1st. So, Lowry better be the better player next season.

                                http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/81...aration-family

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