#FireCasey

[Axel]

I actually think Casey is a strong leader. He's reigned in players who have been notoriously hard to coach.

He's just a mediocre to poor at the basketball part of his job.

Reigned them in how? To not play defence or pass the ball?

Last year, when there was ball movement and player movement on offence and some solid D, I would agree.

But this year, yikes. FUGLY

[Cody73]

Reigned them in how? To not play defence or pass the ball?

Last year, when there was ball movement and player movement on offence and some solid D, I would agree.

But this year, yikes. FUGLY

Our chemistry is gone. The real issue might be one player: Lou.

But we have no idea how this team would play without him, now do we?

[Bandit]

The role of leaders is as overrated in sport as it is in business. Anyone who is building any sort of organization based on a view that the right leader is the key to success is doomed to failure.

There's no single right leader, but the ability to lead is in no way overrated. You need leaders on any team, doesn't matter if it's business or sport. If you think the right leader is overrated I would look at guys like Phil Jackson and Pat Riley as examples of a good leader being important.

I would agree that if you're looking for the "one true leader" then yea you're doomed, if you think that all your woes will be fixed with a leader then yea you're doomed. Leaders, like everyone else in a team, fill a role. That role is important. Saying it's not is a little ridiculous.

In our case we need a better leader on the bench if we want to take the next step, I'm not sure that point is entirely debatable anymore. That being said we also need a better bench, we have other roles on the team that need to be filled with more talent.

Anyone who is building any sort of organization based on a view that leadership is not an important factor to success is doomed for failure.

[S.R.]

There's no single right leader, but the ability to lead is in no way overrated. You need leaders on any team, doesn't matter if it's business or sport. If you think the right leader is overrated I would look at guys like Phil Jackson and Pat Riley as examples of a good leader being important.

I would agree that if you're looking for the "one true leader" then yea you're doomed, if you think that all your woes will be fixed with a leader then yea you're doomed. Leaders, like everyone else in a team, fill a role. That role is important. Saying it's not is a little ridiculous.

In our case we need a better leader on the bench if we want to take the next step, I'm not sure that point is entirely debatable anymore. That being said we also need a better bench, we have other roles on the team that need to be filled with more talent.

Anyone who is building any sort of organization based on a view that leadership is not an important factor to success is doomed for failure.

I think it is safe to say any very stable organization with consistent success points to top-level leadership right away. You will always hear the credits start with Riley in Miami and with Buford & Pops in San Antonio, it used to point to Jerry Buss and Phil in LA, too.

Sure there are situations where you can achieve some success with average leadership if, for example in basketball, you have mediocre management/coaching that lucked into acquiring great players (e.g. Lebron's first stint in Cleveland) and in lots of situations where leadership is average or below average, everyone at ground level will say things like "leadership is overrated." But yeah, I don't think anybody under the supervision of great leadership has ever said "leadership is overrated." If you've got above average leadership as the foundation for your success, you know it.

[Pill]

I got chased off this board with a bunch of circle jerking when we were winning after making some anti casey comments. I am glad to see everyone is on the same page I was on months/years ago.

[OldSkoolCool]

Which member of our front office supported the ISO ball we are playing right now and said that it has been proven to work in the playoffs.

Ya, he should also be fired

[Nilanka]

Which member of our front office supported the ISO ball we are playing right now and said that it has been proven to work in the playoffs.

Ya, he should also be fired

Jeff Weltman.

To be fair, he was quoting an unnamed league scout who suggested that the Raptors should succeed in the playoffs based on their ISO style of play. Not sure if he believes it himself.

[DanH]

Which member of our front office supported the ISO ball we are playing right now and said that it has been proven to work in the playoffs.

Ya, he should also be fired

Meh. Until they fire the coach, the management's job is to support the coach.

[DanH]

We get it. That's your opinion. But it is completely unreasonable to ignore mitigating factors - the most important of which is Kyle Lowry. Even you must concede there is a pretty direct correlation between the drop-off in Lowry's play since January 1st and the fortunes of the team overall.

Casey isn't blameless but it isn't all at his feet. And, if you choose to make Casey the sine qua non of the late-season collapse, then you also have to give him the lion's share of the credit for the tp-10 defense and offense last year.

And actually, Einstein didn't say the insanity thing....

Here's the thing. I gave Casey tons of credit for last year. And I was fine with him coming back because of it. Even though overall I disliked his coaching style I saw the results so I could live with giving him a full training camp with this roster.

And now he should be fired for what happened this year.

[DanH]

As for the "Lowry fell off therefore the team fell off" theory - yes, indeed. But Lowry wasn't the only one to fall off.

The team's net rating while Lowry was off the court before Jan 1st was +6.5. After? +2.4. That's a pretty dramatic drop off to be caused by a guy who wasn't on the court for either data set.

The entire team fell apart (except JV, who got better as the season went on). That's on Casey.

[psrs1]

Meh. Until they fire the coach, the management's job is to support the coach.

Management has been supportive. The big question most of us posters have is will MU do what is necessary...

[slaw]

Here's the thing. I gave Casey tons of credit for last year. And I was fine with him coming back because of it. Even though overall I disliked his coaching style I saw the results so I could live with giving him a full training camp with this roster.

And now he should be fired for what happened this year.

I guess that is where I part ways with you and others. My view is that people gave Casey way too much credit last year and way too much blame this year. He's not irrelevant team success or lack thereof but I think his impact on wins and losses, like the impact of most coaches on wins on losses, is over-emphasized.

[Primer]

I guess that is where I part ways with you and others. My view is that people gave Casey way too much credit last year and way too much blame this year. He's not irrelevant team success or lack thereof but I think his impact on wins and losses, like the impact of most coaches on wins on losses, is over-emphasized.

Which is why I like to emphasize all the stupid things he does as a coach. There are plenty of games we ended up winning despite Casey's crap coaching. Can't just look at the box score, gotta watch the games to make an informed opinion.

[S.R.]

Which is why I like to emphasize all the stupid things he does as a coach. There are plenty of games we ended up winning despite Casey's crap coaching. Can't just look at the box score, gotta watch the games to make an informed opinion.

Comments defending/minimizing how bad Casey has been this year have been reduced to basic basketball axioms like "coaches don't impact the game as much as most fans think" and "it's the players who play the game." While those are generally true, they're pretty inadequate responses to the pages and pages of specific criticisms of the coaching this year.

[Primer]

Talk of firing Casey in the news:

http://nypost.com/2015/04/24/is-rajo...e-lakers-deal/

"Another potential opening could be in Toronto, with the Raptors trailing the Wizards 2-0 after dropping the first two games at home. The loser between Raptors coach Dwane Casey and Wizards coach Randy Wittman was bound to be in trouble — and no one expected a sweep. Raptors general manager Masai Ujiri could make sweeping changes on the bench and with the roster this offseason despite back-to-back Atlantic Division titles."

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/articl...s-in-purgatory

"It's clear after a few years, even to a layperson, when the guy at the end of the bench is less than a genius. A franchise might put up with this if they're sort of succeeding—that understandably human tendency explains why Scotty Brooks has only just now been fired by Oklahoma City—but why would a franchise that's treading water stick with someone who's demonstrably not great?....Maybe they need to fire their coach."

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-...r-scott-brooks

"Toronto Raptors: Not to get ahead of ourselves, but if the Raptors were to part ways with Dwane Casey, with Toronto facing an 0-2 hole going to DC, Brooks is a smart coach that wouldn't want personnel say over Masai Ujiri, and that could work with a younger-veteran roster to get the most out of it. It's not an ideal fit since the biggest criticism of the Raptors right now offensively is their lack of creativity, but he does bring a better cultural identity and a more efficient offensive strategy, favoring drive-and-kick opportunities for 3-pointers."