Everything Derozan

[big boi]

Has anything happened to make us think that's not the case? What changed between two weeks ago and now that the ascendency, as you put it, is less likely?

I definitely could be overreacting. I probably am. I'm definitely emotional. I thought we could add a starting 4 this year. That's looking difficult. Our cap situation is looking more difficult moving forward.

At the same time. Demar can get better. He improves on something every summer. Which is actually unbelievable and something I respect. Maybe this year it will be the 3. Or a commitment to D. JV can get much better. Norm will get better. Demarre will be better.

I thought we had a window of 3-4 years. I'm worried that we might not have that window now.

[Miekenstien]

Speaking on our cap situation. Next year with pat and Lowry's cap holds, how much room do we have? Does rosss's contract get more viable next year?

I think that Masai said no to noel for Ross because he knows how valuable a vet at 10 million is going to be.

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[tDotted]

Give what a rest? Being depressed that we gave 28M per year to a deeply flawed 2 guard who can't defend, can't shoot the 3, doesnt shoot a great percentage from 2, isnt a team player, helps to stunt the growth of our dominant young centre by not passing to him and by taking terrible forced shots instead of passing to him, doesn't show up in the playoffs and now has taken ~25% of our cap? Okay.

You keep mentioning JV..... DeRozan has been his best Pick & Roll partner by far on the team and also doesn't see much usage change whether DD plays or not...

I think you just hate the guy because he doesn't fit the mold of what a SG "should be" in your head. I guess that's okay but as others have said, we get it..

[DanH]

Speaking on our cap situation. Next year with pat and Lowry's cap holds, how much room do we have? Does rosss's contract get more viable next year?

I think that Masai said no to noel for Ross because he knows how valuable a vet at 10 million is going to be.

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Hard to say, depends on what happens the rest of the summer and how DD's deal is structured, plus where exactly the cap ends up next summer (could be a wild variance from the projection as the CBA negotiations happen first and they may address the false jump).

Right now, with DD's new deal (assumed backloaded), and two 2017 picks (assumed 20th and 25th), and Lowry and PP's holds on the books, we are capped out, about 8M over the 108M cap projection in fact. Take off Lowry and PP and we have about 19M in cap room. But fair warning, the cap could be as low as 97-98M (if they correct the jump) or as high as 115M or so (if they have an even more severe than predicted underspending issue this summer and they don't correct the jump).

[tDotted]

Haha. That's fair. It's been a hard couple of days. I love this team and thought we were in the ascendency...

And on top of that, DeRozan hasn't even celebrated his 27th birthday yet... He may have an old man's game, but he's still very young and hasn't given any indication he's reached his peak.

[Mr.Z]

Oh yeah, I forgot to post that. I saw him on tross's Snapchat. He was literally practicing just hours after his new contact

He might as well sleep in that gym, he's got a lot of work to do to live up to his new contract lol

[big boi]

And on top of that, DeRozan hasn't even celebrated his 27th birthday yet... He may have an old man's game, but he's still very young and hasn't given any indication he's reached his peak.

I hope Demar can be better. But it's a salary cap world and what he gets paid for his performance makes a difference. He now gets paid 28M per year as our starting 2. So now it doesn't just come down to whether other teams have a better starting 2, but what are they paying their starting 2 and how much do they have to spend elsewhere.

[Abbas]

He might as well sleep in that gym, he's got a lot of work to do to live up to his new contract lol

Lol he actually did do that before

I remember reading he does a lot of overnight workouts

[Hotshot]

He might as well sleep in that gym, he's got a lot of work to do to live up to his new contract lol

He needs to spend more with someone like this:



So do tell me Ross, why can't you show up in big games?!

[JawsGT]

Hard to say, depends on what happens the rest of the summer and how DD's deal is structured, plus where exactly the cap ends up next summer (could be a wild variance from the projection as the CBA negotiations happen first and they may address the false jump).

Right now, with DD's new deal (assumed backloaded), and two 2017 picks (assumed 20th and 25th), and Lowry and PP's holds on the books, we are capped out, about 8M over the 108M cap projection in fact. Take off Lowry and PP and we have about 19M in cap room. But fair warning, the cap could be as low as 97-98M (if they correct the jump) or as high as 115M or so (if they have an even more severe than predicted underspending issue this summer and they don't correct the jump).

And if we were to trade for Millsap and resign him and Lowry next offseason, we would likely be paying $120M + for our starting unit?

[DanH]

And if we were to trade for Millsap and resign him and Lowry next offseason, we would likely be paying $120M + for our starting unit?

Depends what they end up getting - next summer there is (somewhat) less money on the market and more talent on the market, while the max salaries are higher (making it harder for as many teams to be competitive in their offers). But yeah, worst case, if we had both, we'd be up there in salary.

[planetmars]

Made a cap conversion chart to show what first-year salaries under this cap would have looked like last season. pic.twitter.com/1QKyQAtZJQ

— Matt Ellentuck (@mellentuck) July 2, 2016

DD's new starting salary would have been $18M under the old cap. That's basically Millsap money.

[JimiCliff]

Made a cap conversion chart to show what first-year salaries under this cap would have looked like last season. pic.twitter.com/1QKyQAtZJQ

— Matt Ellentuck (@mellentuck) July 2, 2016

DD's new starting salary would have been $18M under the old cap. That's basically Millsap money.

Conley at $20 mil just seems stupid to me.

[tDotted]

Made a cap conversion chart to show what first-year salaries under this cap would have looked like last season. pic.twitter.com/1QKyQAtZJQ

— Matt Ellentuck (@mellentuck) July 2, 2016

DD's new starting salary would have been $18M under the old cap. That's basically Millsap money.

So Jeff Green, Conley, Parsons, Mozgov and Turner are still overpaid.

[JawsGT]

Depends what they end up getting - next summer there is (somewhat) less money on the market and more talent on the market, while the max salaries are higher (making it harder for as many teams to be competitive in their offers). But yeah, worst case, if we had both, we'd be up there in salary.

well likely that starting unit would cover the cap at least. Plus Patterson would be looking for a significant pay raise if he were still here. Seems like a very tough position and risky situation to be in when looking to fill out the roster, no? Is this how most contenders are operating? We'd have bird rights to all the key players of course, and signed for the future, but would we be left relying completely rookie on scale deals and the mle to fill the bottom 6-8 roster slots?

Say Pat, Ross and Wright were traded for Millsap, for example.

16/17

JV/Bebe
Millsap/Poeltl/Siakim
Carroll/Caboclo
Demar/Powell
Lowry/Cojo

+ maybe JJ as we can exceed the cap for him I believe and the mle. Still 2 spots to fill with a very very young bench. Is that team better than last year?

And then in 2017 you got Lowry and Millsap looking for big raises and we would have pretty much the same roster.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around this, because in the hypothetical scenario of trading for a big PF upgrade like Millsap, we are likely going to be relying on rookies and sophomores to fill most of the bench and end of bench roster spots, and thus relying on some of them to be replacement level players for guys like Patterson or Ross or Cojo or Scola. I can't seem to picture a scenario where we get significantly better at PF (i.e. getting a player better than Pat) that does not completely gut our bench and leave us in the same situation next off season.

Even Gibson would be a one year solution and looking for a much larger salary in next years free agency. So should we trade asset(s) for him now? Do we see him as a significant enough upgrade to invest in him next offseasons free agency?

Should we only be looking at PF's currently under longer term deals like Faried, who for all his flaws is good value on that contract?

Hard to really see avenues for improvement over the next couple of years that don't rely on at least two or three of the young guys we have becoming very good NBA players, thus allowing us to use their bird rights to stay above the cap to resign them and continue to field a competitive team. Getting over the hump right now seems very difficult given our cap situation, our assets, the market, and what is actually available and realistic to get help from outside the organization. Most trade scenarios look like they will require one or two of our good bench/role players (PAt, Ross, Cojo) and one or two of our good prospects (Powell, Wright, Poeltl), all of whom we rely on to fill key roles or likely will in the near future. All of whom would be tough to replace when you're capped out with your starting unit.

All in all, I'm not confidant there is a move that can really take us over the top right now, and to even make a move at all might require sacrificing future flexibility, and perhaps, we are better standing pat and rolling with what we've got, which is still pretty good and very likely to improve.