Everything Derozan

[Axel]

Really? Because I don't think I've seen anyone actually advocating for him to receive Max, or arguing that he deserves Max.. I could have missed something though.

In addition to Mindlessness's spot on post, my point was more about DD and supporters using the receipt of a max offer as justification for, well everything DD.

If DD gets a max offer, can you honestly say that this board will not have posts to the effect of "obviously the GM felt he deserves it and they know more than you" with the hashtag "ProveEm" thrown in for good measure?

[Axel]

And more people who react before actually reading posts pop in.

No one said that people who support Demar before Raptors are "less of fans" that has not been mentioned at all in the past 100s of pages with exception by you and JWash.

This is why it is important to read posts before responding. It's like the God damn telephone game - before you know it someone will be responding that "only true Raptors fans are willing to pay Demar purple monkey dishwasher."

[consmap]

Shut her down! Abort! ABORT!

[mcHAPPY]

In addition to Mindlessness's spot on post, my point was more about DD and supporters using the receipt of a max offer as justification for, well everything DD.

If DD gets a max offer, can you honestly say that this board will not have posts to the effect of "obviously the GM felt he deserves it and they know more than you" with the hashtag "ProveEm" thrown in for good measure?

And if Mindlessness felt the urge, I am sure he could go back through the last 100 pages and find other posters with similar posts justifying a max contract or near max contract littered with rationale such as "team U-S-A!" "All-Star!" "Loyalty!" and "Hard work!"


Derozan (and Ross for that matter) are the opposite types of players that Ujiri has brought in when given the opportunity. Will be interesting to see what happens to both this coming year.

[Axel]

every single 2 guard in the NBA has efficiencies and deficiencies. ...

You got Derozan at a bargain, same with amir.... but it doesnt always go like that. sometimes you gotta pay up.

Some interesting points.

Few thoughts.

First, since we can't sign a max guy at every position, why spend it on a position (and player) with such deficiencies? There are other positions that could bring better return on our money surely.

Lots of great teams have been weak at certain spots. There is nothing wrong with rolling out a lesser player who is a better fit (on a team friendly deal) as long as you have those great players to play off of. By tying up money into the SG spot, it means we can't afford to pay max elsewhere.

I have no problem overpaying a player when that player will put your team "over the top" or if that player has room for growth. Don't think either applies here.

[JWash]

Some interesting points.

Few thoughts.

First, since we can't sign a max guy at every position, why spend it on a position (and player) with such deficiencies? There are other positions that could bring better return on our money surely.

Lots of great teams have been weak at certain spots. There is nothing wrong with rolling out a lesser player who is a better fit (on a team friendly deal) as long as you have those great players to play off of. By tying up money into the SG spot, it means we can't afford to pay max elsewhere.

I have no problem overpaying a player when that player will put your team "over the top" or if that player has room for growth. Don't think either applies here.

Just out of curiosity what would your "limit" be for paying DeRozan in 2016 FA? Just wondering.

[Snooch]

OK, Time for a little comparative to see how DD stacks up against some other sgs.


NOTE: EXCLUDED from the listings are: Kobe, Harden, Manu, Wade. I dont think anyone would argue that these guys are better than Demar..so keep in mind that they are not reflected in tables.



And lets compare him exclusively to Wes Mathews who just signed a contract a contract worth in the first year about 24.3% of the cap.

Using a simple average of the following categories:

Offensive Rating
Defensive Rating
Per
OWS
DWS
WS/48
OBPM
DBPM
BPM

Demar averages out as the 8th of 12 players(with 8.6) , and Wes as the 4th of 12 players(at 4.2). Therefore is Wes is worth it is not unreasonable to suggest that, based on actual output, is worth less than Wes' by a fair amount seeing how Demars numbers put him into a different tier.( Wes would be in tier 2 of guards tested, Demar tier 3)

Coincidentally, Demars placement in the above mentioned advanced metrics, places him directly in between Courtney Lee and Monta Ellis in terms of overall effect on team play.

[Axel]

Just out of curiosity what would your "limit" be for paying DeRozan in 2016 FA? Just wondering.

$12M-$15M - and yes that's with the cap jump. Basically he's not as good as Carroll so not more than him.

[Snooch]

Screen shot of the numbers didnt work out so good, so just zoom in to read them better.

Also, players used in comparison were

Kevin Martin
DeMar DeRozan
Eric Gordon
Monta Ellis
Victor Oladipo
Bradley Beal
Courtney Lee
Lou Williams
Klay Thompson
Kyle Korver
Wesley Matthews
Jimmy Butler

[mcHAPPY]

$12M-$15M - and yes that's with the cap jump. Basically he's not as good as Carroll so not more than him.

$13M - with cap jump.


About the same as he currently makes under old cap (15% of cap).

[thead]

This is why it is important to read posts before responding. It's like the God damn telephone game - before you know it someone will be responding that "only true Raptors fans are willing to pay Demar purple monkey dishwasher."

At best he is a green elephant trash disposal...I'm not signing him to dishwasher

[CalgaryRapsFan]

At best he is a green elephant trash disposal...I'm not signing him to dishwasher

#DisposeEM

[Axel]

At best he is a green elephant trash disposal...I'm not signing him to dishwasher

http://youtu.be/acRnigpauiE

[raptors999]

one issue with Demar is that every top eastern playoff team has a stopper that can shut him down in single coverage in the playoffs except maybe the Hawks. paying Max or Near max for that type of player is foolish.

JV can potentially score a ton against playoff teams like he did early against BKN and he adds rebounding. hence imho his higher value.

[thead]

OKAY GUYS because I think a lot of us are closer on this then the thread reflects

Here's the scenario

GUN TO YOUR HEAD - no explanation required

SCENARIO 1

It's next off season

DeMar's agent walks in and says

I want the five year max or my client walks (110 - 120 million dollars)

YES or NO


SCENARIO 2

It's a month before the trade deadline DeMar's agent walks in and sits down with you

He says hey -insert your name here-

This is a list of teams we are interested in provided you do not want to pay the max. The interest between us and these teams is mutual (it's irrelevant for this scenario who the teams are but the package we get back is as follows.

1 top ten protected first round pick a 2nd round pick a prospect on a rookie deal (who does show promise but could flame out) and an expiring filler contract

Your option is here is take what you can get or max him out.

What do you do?

SCENARIO 3

You are sitting in your office sipping on gin juice. You are presently laid back in your chair, with your mind on your money, and perhaps your money is on your mind... Sorry Snoop was playing in the background

DeMar's agent walks in and hands you a piece of paper and says "write down the most money and years you are willing to offer."

You write down __ years and ____ million and slide it back.

What's your paper say?



My thinking is the majority of us are a LOT closer on this than this thread would have you believe.