Everything Derozan

[JWash]

- DeRozan is elite scoring and creating points in P&R situations, want to use Thornton/Chalmers to discredit that (guys that don't even start)? So be it.
- DeRozan is elite at driving and scoring baskets at the rim. If we want to say that him driving leads to losses? So be it.
- DeRozan is playing at a level we have not seen him play at before this season, but if we want to say that his best games lead to us losing? So be it.


All I know is the guy is putting up 22-4-4 this season on an efficient 54.2 TS% with a positive net rating, top 20 rank in the league in win shares and top 11 rank in OWS. His PER is over 20, and he's been producing like this on a consistent basis all year. There's nothing that looks streaky about it since it's not like he's doing it by nailing jumper after jumper (*cough* Beal *cough* in the early season *cough* who everyone prefers to DeMar, but isn't as good). He's doing it by getting to the rim and finishing or making free throws which is something you can do game after game, it hasn't mattered this year if he's facing George and Middleton or some scrub defender he's been producing consistently, while getting the opponent's best wing defender put on him every night.

This isn't a guy that Masai is going to say, "welp, go ahead and leave" in the offseason. He's going to try to keep him as much as many here want him gone at all costs. He's playing excellent basketball this season. I'm not really sure what people want at this point. Most of the complaints with him had to do with playing selfishly and taking way too many ill-advised 20 footers.... well he has gone away from that and focused on scoring in the paint where he's most effective and also using his ability to weave through defenders inside to create opportunities for teammates.

This is the prototype, vintage, efficient shooting guard. You can talk about 3+D all you want, but that's a whole lot easier to get your hands on than DeMar DeRozan.

[JWash]

Can someone actually give an example of a team letting their all-star player walk without even negotiating??

It just seems so unrealistic to me.

It really feels like a Demar hater's fantasy.

Common sense tells me that Masai will do everything in his power to re-sign Demar, even if it means trading him later.



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There are zero examples. How would you even explain it to Durant? (Who would probably want to come and play with DeMar at least as part of the reasoning for the move).

It's just something people are hoping for but there is absolutely no way Masai is going to just throw up a giant "fuck you" to DeMar and let him walk. If Durant wants to come I guarantee you someone else will be jettisoned to make way for DeMar.

[special1]

Seriously man.... like it's clearly something the guy has been elite at.

It's so clear.... lol

It's actually funny seeing the desperate attempts to discredit it.

Our own Raptor player (Demar) is good at something.....let's move the criteria so he goes from 2nd to 3rd.... Big Woop I say!


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[JWash]

It's so clear.... lol

It's actually funny seeing the desperate attempts to discredit it.

Our own Raptor player (Demar) is good at something.....let's move the criteria so he goes from 2nd to 3rd.... Big Woop I say!


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For me whenever I see one of our guys killing it in any kind of significant stat it excites me. Lowry going to work in basically every advanced stat is awesome. DeMar being one of the best in the game on drives and P&R is great. Jonas last year (not sure about this year since he hasn't played much) killing it on the low block, awesome!

Idk but without acknowledging some of these successes I wouldn't be able to keep my sanity as a fan because the reality is we're not title contenders, so yes we will have to praise/acknowledge some small victories like these for our guys because that's about all we're going to get this year.

[CB4Champ]

- DeRozan is elite scoring and creating points in P&R situations, want to use Thornton/Chalmers to discredit that (guys that don't even start)? So be it.
- DeRozan is elite at driving and scoring baskets at the rim. If we want to say that him driving leads to losses? So be it.
- DeRozan is playing at a level we have not seen him play at before this season, but if we want to say that his best games lead to us losing? So be it.


All I know is the guy is putting up 22-4-4 this season on an efficient 54.2 TS% with a positive net rating, top 20 rank in the league in win shares and top 11 rank in OWS. His PER is over 20, and he's been producing like this on a consistent basis all year. There's nothing that looks streaky about it since it's not like he's doing it by nailing jumper after jumper (*cough* Beal *cough* in the early season *cough* who everyone prefers to DeMar, but isn't as good). He's doing it by getting to the rim and finishing or making free throws which is something you can do game after game, it hasn't mattered this year if he's facing George and Middleton or some scrub defender he's been producing consistently, while getting the opponent's best wing defender put on him every night.

This isn't a guy that Masai is going to say, "welp, go ahead and leave" in the offseason. He's going to try to keep him as much as many here want him gone at all costs. He's playing excellent basketball this season. I'm not really sure what people want at this point. Most of the complaints with him had to do with playing selfishly and taking way too many ill-advised 20 footers.... well he has gone away from that and focused on scoring in the paint where he's most effective and also using his ability to weave through defenders inside to create opportunities for teammates.

This is the prototype, vintage, efficient shooting guard. You can talk about 3+D all you want, but that's a whole lot easier to get your hands on than DeMar DeRozan.

J WASH..YOU BE WASHING THEM CLEAN FAM..WOW GREAT POST

Example Is Just So So Chill Wit It..THATS WHY HE EXAMPLE.

He Tramples The Competition..

HE HAD GEORGE, KWAHI ETC ON HIM, AND HE STILL HEAT CHECKED THE OPPONENTS

EXAMPLE AKA SMILING ASSASSIN AKA THE KNOWN ONE,

ONE OF THE MOST FEARED BROTHAS ON THE COURT.

EXAMPLE GETS TO THE BASKET AS EASY AS FISH SWIMING INSIDE THE OCEAN...

AND HE DOES ALL THAT WIT A SMILE!!!

REMEMBER THE GAME HE HAD AGAINST THA CLOSERS OF GAMES (CO.G's) WESTBROOK AND DURANT? WOW!!! THATS EXAMPLE

[Axel]

It's actually funny seeing the desperate attempts to discredit it.

For me whenever I see one of our guys killing it in any kind of significant stat it excites me.

Flip side is Demar fans so desperate to #ProveEm that they fail to even try and understand the stat they are using. Start calling the stat "significant" without bothering to assess its importance or validity.

But yes, Demar is elite in this stat. Just like Thornton, Chalmers, and Gary Neal.

[hotfuzz]

Just let it go man. I don't understand why you have to discredit demar at something he's proven to be good at it. sheesh.

[Axel]

Just let it go man. I don't understand why you have to discredit demar at something he's proven to be good at it. sheesh.

I don't believe the stat holds much value.

But let the blind faithful shout it from the rooftops. "Hooray, Demar is elite at this stat that we know little about, and we know doesn't present full representation of the points generated from the play!!"

Sorry for wanting to discuss the validity of a stat instead of just blinding accepting it as the greatest thing.

[psrs1]

Can someone actually give an example of a team letting their all-star player walk without even negotiating??

It just seems so unrealistic to me.

It really feels like a Demar hater's fantasy.

Common sense tells me that Masai will do everything in his power to re-sign Demar, even if it means trading him later.



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I agree that this is most likely scenario. What I see happening is DD signing for less than his Max. There , however , is a small chance MU will move on from DD in some fashion. MU is excellent at keeping things close to the vest unlike our previous GM.

[special1]

Everything Demar Derozan

I don't believe the stat holds much value.

But let the blind faithful shout it from the rooftops. "Hooray, Demar is elite at this stat that we know little about, and we know doesn't present full representation of the points generated from the play!!"

Sorry for wanting to discuss the validity of a stat instead of just blinding accepting it as the greatest thing.

Feel free to start a thread about the validity of stats. Not only this one but a lot of the others as well.

Might make for a good read for those of us who take advanced stats with a grain of salt.

I still believe that you shouldn't NEED advanced stats to see the better players on the floor, night in and night out.




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[Axel]

Feel free to start a thread about the validity of stats. Not only this one but a lot of the others as well.

Might make for a good read for those of us who take advanced stats with a grain of salt.

I still believe that you shouldn't NEED advanced stats to see the better players on the floor, night in and night out.

Not a bad idea but a large undertaking I simply don't have time for now.

Would be willing to discuss them on a case by case basis, but so far no one else is willing.

I agree with your final sentiments to a certain degree but with two large disclaimers; first, you can't see everyone in the league all the time, so you need the info on other players if you want to discuss ability/production vs peers (which I think is necessary to have any real discussion because DD vs Ross isn't that exciting); second, the eye test can be misleading. Personal bias can weigh heavily. Even watching the homer crew of Matt and Jack steers you to seeing things a certain way that an opposing crew might point out as a negative (case in point, Jack might say "shot he normally makes" while an unbiased announcer might call it "bad shot selection").

[raptors999]

Can someone actually give an example of a team letting their all-star player walk without even negotiating??

It just seems so unrealistic to me.

It really feels like a Demar hater's fantasy.

Common sense tells me that Masai will do everything in his power to re-sign Demar, even if it means trading him later.



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A few All-stars have been trade bait when they didnt fit the teams long term vision. Not hating on Demar but he is a very unique player

[Jrice9]

The dissatisfaction that DeMar still receives (and Lowry does occasionally too) I think largely comes from the perfectionism of fans. Everything becomes about winning the championship, having the MVP Lebron/Curry/Durant types or bust. Its why anything short of that standard (A 50 win team, an all star level player who might not be the #1 guy on a championship team) is unacceptable and warrants a derision and a desire to start fresh. Its why people wanted Ross over DeMar, Tobias Harris over DeMar, Gerald Henderson over DeMar, Hayward over DeMAR, CoJo over Lowry etc. Its easy to see the grass as greener...


The problem is team sports success is rarely achieved just through radical change or even perfect growth. Its starts and stops. Its chemistry building. Its hoping for internal change and marginal moves that pan out.

There's a time and place for changing star composition and for tanking but I thin fans are obsessed with this. Championships are rare no matter what you do, so I as a fan (And this is an aesthetic choice) would rather build a good to very good team and hope it becomes a contender with he right nurturing and change then just stagger around taking shots at lottery picks.

I'm really not attacing anyone in particular so don't get offended but its just a general observation I have about the culture/aesthetic appeal of some fans.

[Axel]

The dissatisfaction that DeMar still receives (and Lowry does occasionally too) I think largely comes from the perfectionism of fans. Everything becomes about winning the championship, having the MVP Lebron/Curry/Durant types or bust. Its why anything short of that standard (A 50 win team, an all star level player who might not be the #1 guy on a championship team) is unacceptable and warrants a derision and a desire to start fresh. Its why people wanted Ross over DeMar, Tobias Harris over DeMar, Gerald Henderson over DeMar, Hayward over DeMAR, CoJo over Lowry etc. Its easy to see the grass as greener...


The problem is team sports success is rarely achieved just through radical change or even perfect growth. Its starts and stops. Its chemistry building. Its hoping for internal change and marginal moves that pan out.

There's a time and place for changing star composition and for tanking but I thin fans are obsessed with this. Championships are rare no matter what you do, so I as a fan (And this is an aesthetic choice) would rather build a good to very good team and hope it becomes a contender with he right nurturing and change then just stagger around taking shots at lottery picks.

I'm really not attacing anyone in particular so don't get offended but its just a general observation I have about the culture/aesthetic appeal of some fans.

Solid post.

Only thing I really disagree with is the implied notion that changing the team means "staggering around taking shots at lotto picks". I believe that this team can make the playoffs, become a stronger team, and move on from the current core.

I also think there is discord because some fans simply want to make the playoffs for the excitement while others, want to be a team that is annually competitive in the playoffs that has a chance to win a title. Hard to agree on way forward when you aren't heading to the same place.

[The Great One]

- DeRozan is elite scoring and creating points in P&R situations, want to use Thornton/Chalmers to discredit that (guys that don't even start)? So be it.
- DeRozan is elite at driving and scoring baskets at the rim. If we want to say that him driving leads to losses? So be it.
- DeRozan is playing at a level we have not seen him play at before this season, but if we want to say that his best games lead to us losing? So be it.


All I know is the guy is putting up 22-4-4 this season on an efficient 54.2 TS% with a positive net rating, top 20 rank in the league in win shares and top 11 rank in OWS. His PER is over 20, and he's been producing like this on a consistent basis all year. There's nothing that looks streaky about it since it's not like he's doing it by nailing jumper after jumper (*cough* Beal *cough* in the early season *cough* who everyone prefers to DeMar, but isn't as good). He's doing it by getting to the rim and finishing or making free throws which is something you can do game after game, it hasn't mattered this year if he's facing George and Middleton or some scrub defender he's been producing consistently, while getting the opponent's best wing defender put on him every night.

This isn't a guy that Masai is going to say, "welp, go ahead and leave" in the offseason. He's going to try to keep him as much as many here want him gone at all costs. He's playing excellent basketball this season. I'm not really sure what people want at this point. Most of the complaints with him had to do with playing selfishly and taking way too many ill-advised 20 footers.... well he has gone away from that and focused on scoring in the paint where he's most effective and also using his ability to weave through defenders inside to create opportunities for teammates.

This is the prototype, vintage, efficient shooting guard. You can talk about 3+D all you want, but that's a whole lot easier to get your hands on than DeMar DeRozan.

Like i always say n this thread. Haters gonna hate. This thread is hilarious right now. The usual suspects in complete troll mode. But i'm not surprised. Not at all lol.