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Raptors Offseason 2022

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  • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

    Same direction.... same switchable defense.
    Better result as we made the playoffs instead of the lottery.
    in teerms of drafting they took a different direction and Bobby discussed this last time he was on the will lou podcast.

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    • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

      I would be comfortable trading for a 5.
      I would be comfortable signing one in free agency.
      I would be comfortable drafting one in the top half of the drafts 1st round.
      We need a big who can protect the rim and rebound or we are going out in the first round again when the game completely changes in the playoffs. .
      we got koloko for a reason.

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      • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

        Yes they do have players starting in positions they are suited for.
        Just not in one particular position..
        And when you don't have a rim protector that can rebound at league average... you suddenly become a "positionless" basketball team.
        It is what it is.
        And what it is is a feature not a bug. This is what they want.

        Precious is very capable of playing the nominal 5 in the Raptors system and holding up defensively against the biggest and best centers, which need double teams no matter who is primary.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • planetmars wrote: View Post
          ...We suddenly have Karl Malone on our team, and he can dribble the ball. So that's exciting!
          Ha Ha Ha. Love it.

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          • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

            Yes they do have players starting in positions they are suited for.
            Just not in one particular position..
            And when you don't have a rim protector that can rebound at league average... you suddenly become a "positionless" basketball team.
            It is what it is.
            Not really. If you tagged the Raps with traditional positions it would go:

            PG: Siakam
            SG: FVV
            SF: Trent
            PF: OG
            C: Barnes

            Except your centre defends point guards. See how silly this is? People gotta stop with this. The systems Raps run now require 5 guys who can score and handle the ball in the perimeter and defend 4-5 positions in space without predetermined positional matchups. Traditional bigs don’t work.

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            • slaw wrote: View Post

              Not really. If you tagged the Raps with traditional positions it would go:

              PG: Siakam
              SG: FVV
              SF: Trent
              PF: OG
              C: Barnes

              Except your centre defends point guards. See how silly this is? People gotta stop with this. The systems Raps run now require 5 guys who can score and handle the ball in the perimeter and defend 4-5 positions in space without predetermined positional matchups. Traditional bigs don’t work.
              precisely the whole point is everyone can do everything some guys do somethings better than others but in general everyone does everything....


              No one SHOULD be complaining if you could swap out trent and FVV for a guy similar to KD.... and you run a line up of:

              Barnes, Siakam, OG, KD, Precious


              the whole point of moving towards positionless is to highlight a few things. First of all, if you have everyone have an above average BBIQ on both ends of the floor it will be increasingly difficult to target any one individual on the defensive end.... making it .... less efficient to score because you have to waste more time finding the right matchups or you have no distinct matchups that can be exploited. The second thing is ... its hard to build a team that is positionless and for that reason you will have potentially more physical advantages when compared to other teams. If your point guard and down to your small forward all have physical advantages in height and length and athleticism on offence if you run a read and react system it will be potentially easier (when everyone is effectively healthy and developed) to exploit offensive advantages.


              This is part of the point of read and react in theory although we could use some variation which I do feel will happen this year. Also the raptors appear to have calculated that they would prefer to have longer more athletic players crash the offensive glass becuase most likely it leads to a higher probability of winning in terms of the math. Koloko also helps because he is not only a bigger center but he is also fast (if you watched summer league) so he can both play drop coverage but a HIGH drop coverage almost all the way out to the perimeter in fact sometimes he was out there... and not get exploited ... and in a pinch he can switch as well. The whole point is not to just develop Barnes and pray but develop the entire team as best as we can with as many skill sets. It also creates some important redundancy and continuity so if player x is out with an injury you aren't left wondering what to do.. where it can get you in trouble is in the playoffs where 3 players are out.. but thats why we got even more big wings. Doesn't mean you can't have guys on the bench who have rolls that skew towards being specialists but the expectations are you will first and foremost defend and be switchable for 3-5 positions and that you will be smart enough to identify where the ball needs to go.. that is where they want to head ... or at least that is where it seems...




              On a side note THIS is the reason why I am not as high on certain players long term because I want the raptors to be as committed to this as the suns were to their style during the nash years. Or Morey was in Houston to Morey Ball. Dare to be different not traditional and experiment.... otherwise you will be hoping and praying for luck and without the luck you may be left behind as the league evolves on its own. The raptors are essentially attempting to set a trend. And while there may be many doubters or people who don't see the vision... it appears that ... this is the vision they have verbally been committed to... also the one that their actions have shown they believe in.

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              • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

                in teerms of drafting they took a different direction and Bobby discussed this last time he was on the will lou podcast.
                Bobby is going about the business of covering his butt.
                And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

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                • DanH wrote: View Post

                  And what it is is a feature not a bug. This is what they want.

                  Precious is very capable of playing the nominal 5 in the Raptors system and holding up defensively against the biggest and best centers, which need double teams no matter who is primary.
                  Its what they settled for.
                  They were in on the Gobert sweepstakes till the prices got goofy.

                  We are fans and unbridled optimists....

                  However.....
                  Just remember that Embiid bulled and bullied us at will in the paint during round one to boot us out last year and a couple of regular season games where that noted all nba 5 Dwayne Dedmon punked us.
                  In the playoffs.. in a previous post... the guys lining up at the five outweigh Achiwua or Pascal or Scottie by 30 to 50 pounds.
                  Its almost impossible to move your opponent with that weight disadvantage no matter how you leverage your position..... and when you can't move that guy off the spot....the rebounds dry up and the second chance points flow.


                  And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

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                  • slaw wrote: View Post

                    Not really. If you tagged the Raps with traditional positions it would go:

                    PG: Siakam
                    SG: FVV
                    SF: Trent
                    PF: OG
                    C: Barnes

                    Except your centre defends point guards. See how silly this is? People gotta stop with this. The systems Raps run now require 5 guys who can score and handle the ball in the perimeter and defend 4-5 positions in space without predetermined positional matchups. Traditional bigs don’t work.
                    Yet the last four MVP's have been 5's .. Jokic x 2 and The Alphabet x 2.
                    Giannas goes 245... Jokic 285.
                    And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

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                    • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                      Yet the last four MVP's have been 5's .. Jokic x 2 and The Alphabet x 2.
                      Giannas goes 245... Jokic 285.
                      Embiid a perennial contender too
                      Positionless works in the regular season, but not against the great teams in the playoffs.

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                      • Kagemusha wrote: View Post

                        Embiid a perennial contender too
                        Positionless works in the regular season, but not against the great teams in the playoffs.
                        On the other hand neither Jokic or Embiid has gone far in the playoffs. Raptors were down 0-3 but made it a series anyway. Giannis did win a championship, but then also lost in the 2nd round last season.

                        And then the championship team this year used an undersized big as their center.

                        The common key to winning a championship is that you have to have a star player. Raptors don't have that quite yet. Hopefully Scottie becomes that guy, but ultimately having a starting caliber 7ftr on the roster isn't going to make that much of a difference until they do.

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                        • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                          I would be comfortable trading for a 5.
                          I would be comfortable signing one in free agency.
                          I would be comfortable drafting one in the top half of the drafts 1st round.
                          We need a big who can protect the rim and rebound or we are going out in the first round again when the game completely changes in the playoffs. .
                          Good to see you back with vengeance, Demo, but what the heck are you on about? lol.

                          I don't understand your criteria #3. Marc Gasol and Jokic were second round picks who will both go into the HoF. Are you saying that it's a bad thing to draft first round talent in the second round?

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                          • golden wrote: View Post

                            Good to see you back with vengeance, Demo, but what the heck are you on about? lol.

                            I don't understand your criteria #3. Marc Gasol and Jokic were second round picks who will both go into the HoF. Are you saying that it's a bad thing to draft first round talent in the second round?
                            Of all the takes... I don't have a prepared defense for a couple unicorn draft picks that turn into HoF

                            Back with a vengence mostly cuz its the dog days of summer and I am conflicted on my NFL Fantasy draft .. Apollo and Mack North both draft ahead of me.
                            I wanted Tyler Linderbaum
                            And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

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                            • Kagemusha wrote: View Post

                              Embiid a perennial contender too
                              Positionless works in the regular season, but not against the great teams in the playoffs.
                              Who were the top 4 teams remaining in the Playoffs?

                              Warriors won the championship, no traditional C.
                              Celtics made the Finals, no traditional C (They have Robert Williams who is a fantastic rim protector, but he is 6'8)
                              Heat made the ECF, they have Bam who is a small ball C.
                              Mavs made the WCF and have Kleber who is a decent rim protector and floor spacer.

                              Bigs are nice (Maybe Koloko turns into something good), but the real game changers are wing players, unless you're Curry.

                              Superstar Centers like Embiid and Jokic are a problem, but you won't stop them with just any random 7 footer. It took a former DPOY in Gasol to shut down Embiid, and he has gotten better since then. Neither of them have gone far in the Playoffs either. Jokic hasn't had a good enough team around him and Embiid always ends up injured.

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                              • Kagemusha wrote: View Post

                                Embiid a perennial contender too
                                Positionless works in the regular season, but not against the great teams in the playoffs.


                                considering the final four teams trended towards it I would argue that it works just fine... we were a young team.... so I dont know about this.




                                Another thing is positionless with long wing spans helps solve the geometry problem caused by the spacing of teams like golden state by giving you more margin for error since you have longer more athletic players who can close out faster.






                                I think what you and a few others are confusing is small ball with positionless. They are not the same even if they seem similar at first.

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