Building a contender on a knife's edge?

[SkywalkerAC]

It's a valid criticism. It's why many of the DeMar supporters like myself have said that DeMar is a third option (maybe second now) on a contending team.

The problem is that our avenues for securing a tier one superstar are even more limited now than before we locked in DeMarre and TRoss. Re-sign DeMar to the max and we're nearly jammed.

We come face to face with a reality that has been repeated ad nauseam by the tankers: securing superstar talent in a less-attractive market is easiest through the draft. The CBA's artificial max forces markets like us to overpay secondary stars, which squeezes out productive cap space. Which is not to say we're doomed. Only that if the margin of error for Masai is slim, it's a situation of his own making.

Sure, except we're loaded with trade assets.

[Axel]

Sure, except we're loaded with trade assets.

That is true but who can we get that fits the required role AND moves the team closer to contending status?

[Snooch]

Getting markieff wouldn't elevate the team even if he got his mind right.

If you're talking about power forwards that might legitimately take this team to the next level (and are somewhat obtainable in an ideal wolrd): e.g. Bosh, ibaka, horford, cousins, etc I don't see why these guys would clash with demar

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Demar would be needed to aquire those players....

Sure Demar will work beside them because they are awesome talents and can work no matter what you throw on the court with them.

But

A) You have to obtain them and paying demar maxish money severely hinders all depth and or ability to trade for them.

and

B) PFs pretty much always play better with floor spacing sgs. How deadly would Cousins be when surrounded by shooters.

and

C) the final product of the roster would be better from top to bottom with a cheaper 3 and d option at the sg spot and said PF than with a depleted bench/picks etc and Demar

and

d) There is still the potential that Demars play drops becoming the second or third banana and the offensive system being rehauled to maximize a stud PF....at a 25ish million dollar contract that is an incredibly risky bet.

[LJ2]

Because it isn't about ideal fit as much as required in DDs case perhaps.

Dirk can still be Dirk, even without proper styled teammates. Are you confident in DD to continue to excel without the specific team construct requirements?

Ah what? There is a reason why they keep trying to get defense first C next to him. It's to cover up his inability to defend so that his offence is hilighted.

[JWash]

Haha dirk next to vucevic would be funny

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[Axel]

Ah what? There is a reason why they keep trying to get defense first C next to him. It's to cover up his inability to defend so that his offence is hilighted.

Yes, you need to cover up his defence but even if you don't, his offence will work with anyone on the court.

Demar needs specific roles to get to that max level productivity on offence. The fact that you need to go specific on offence means you are much less likely to even get to address his defence.

Simply put, one example is to cover up weakness, the other is to prop up strengths. In my mind, only one is worth building around.

[Mess]

To pose a question to DeMar's defenders on here, wouldn't you consider a limiting factor that Tony Allen, who is probably the premier perimeter defender of this generation, could never be acquired by our team as long as we have DeMar?

LOL

wade was tonnes better than Demar at pretty much everything.

And Wade had shaq.

and had

kapono and Posey and Walker and williams....all capable 3pt shooters.

Wait...this sounds like you are defending DeMar....

Because Scola has been playing the stretch role with the starters.

DD and CoJo play with Patterson. No top line combo of them with Scola.

Don't think we have enough JJ minutes to make a credible sample size.

Just because someone stands at the 3 point line it doesn't mean he's a stretch anything. He's shooting 3's because no one is guarding him out there - his defender is likely collapsed in helping out on drives.

[Axel]

Just because someone stands at the 3 point line it doesn't mean he's a stretch anything. He's shooting 3's because no one is guarding him out there - his defender is likely collapsed in helping out on drives.

So you disagree with the SI article's points on this.

[JWash]

Power forwards that can stretch the floor is practically a rule in the league nowadays. Most teams like to have bangers, defensive types or inside scorers at the 5 so it's key for spacing.

Even lebron basically forced Bosh to become an outside shooter.

What top team has a pf who can't shoot from outside? Even the guys that couldn't like brow or Blake or green put in crazy work on it.

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[Snooch]

not surprisingly, far too much emphasis is being placed on the three point shooting teamates part and using Scola as an example against article.

There is alot more on the plate than a three point shooting pf being needed, yet that is all being completely ignored.

[Eliza]

Your points 1 & 2 seem to be blatantly ignoring the ideas that were brought forward by the article, the OP and general basketball history. He is producing at a great level, but the story is in how he gets there and the impact that has on what the team can do.

Your last paragraph is pure malarkey. This isn't an attempt to put down Demar, but rather to have an intelligent discussion about how a recent DD positive article's themes relate to the larger team concept.

Oh and if you're looking for Draymond Green posts - I was a big supporter of him at the draft and even I have been blown away at how far he has come.

"blatantly ignoring", "pure malarkey": You're a Mod, so am I to assume this kind of rude/insulting response is okay here? Still trying to get a feel for what's acceptable, and this tells me I can be more aggressive than I thought. Thanks.

That aside, how am I ignoring the article (spoke of him accomplishing valuable offense in a somewhat unique way), to say nothing of how am I ignoring "basketball history"? And I'm certainly not ignoring your OP, unless it's a requirement to agree with you, and/or don't stray from your train of thought and express a different view of any one aspect of your OP.

"malarkey"? Ummm, how exactly is it not putting down DeMar's value when your presentation is about how you feel it's soooooo difficult to build a contender with DeMar, and what he brings to the table? Your intent in creating this thread certainly is not about praising him, or his value to the team. If it's not putting his value down, what exactly is the purpose of it, seeing as your saying it's extremely difficult to build a contender around him? As in needing players that the team also needs around JV anyway, or should we unload JV as well?

Great, you were a supporter of Draymond at the draft. It doesn't answer my question in the least, but thanks for sharing that.

[Snooch]

LOL

that not an answer

Wait...this sounds like you are defending DeMar....

Not defense, was a response to a post that if Wade could win so can demar.

Just because someone stands at the 3 point line it doesn't mean he's a stretch anything. He's shooting 3's because no one is guarding him out there - his defender is likely collapsed in helping out on drives.

that is completely opposite of how it works.

Your defender is with you, opening the floor for drives, not the other way around, as evidenced by the history of the nba in all its forms.

[Barolt]

Sure, except we're loaded with trade assets.

We're loaded with trade assets that are very, very hard to trade. If we trade Ross, where does the wing shooting off the bench come from? If we trade Patterson, it has to be for a stretch PF, so for a player that does the same thing.

[JWash]

We're loaded with trade assets that are very, very hard to trade. If we trade Ross, where does the wing shooting off the bench come from? If we trade Patterson, it has to be for a stretch PF, so for a player that does the same thing.

ok so it's easy to get a wing shooter of starting caliber to replace demar but hard to get a bench one to replace ross?

Why are we talking about 2pat and Ross like what they do is absolutely critical and difficult to replace while dd is a hindrance...

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[Snooch]

"blatantly ignoring", "pure malarkey": You're a Mod, so am I to assume this kind of rude/insulting response is okay here? Still trying to get a feel for what's acceptable, and this tells me I can be more aggressive than I thought. Thanks.

That aside, how am I ignoring the article (spoke of him accomplishing valuable offense in a somewhat unique way), to say nothing of how am I ignoring "basketball history"? And I'm certainly not ignoring your OP, unless it's a requirement to agree with you, and/or don't stray from your train of thought and express a different view of any one aspect of your OP.

"malarkey"? Ummm, how exactly is it not putting down DeMar's value when your presentation is about how you feel it's soooooo difficult to build a contender with DeMar, and what he brings to the table? Your intent in creating this thread certainly is not about praising him, or his value to the team. If it's not putting his value down, what exactly is the purpose of it, seeing as your saying it's extremely difficult to build a contender around him? As in needing players that the team also needs around JV anyway, or should we unload JV as well?

Great, you were a supporter of Draymond at the draft. It doesn't answer my question in the least, but thanks for sharing that.

If a person sifts through all the bullshit, there appears to be an attempt at discussion in here.


The point being made, and one that you are missing here, is that while a stretch pf etc is needed on most teams to be highly successful, it is a MUST for ours.

Our system is for demar exclusively, While some parts we need replicate that of other teams it still adds to that very very small window of error, and even smaller window of opportunity(when factoring flexibility after signing demar)