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  • LJ2 wrote: View Post
    The article on the front page brings up an interesting point that the Cav's may just be untouchable in the East this season with their acquisition of Korver, and thus questions if we should pay the steep fee it's going to cost for Milsap. With our withoul him Cav's may have just booked their trip to the finals without ever playing a playoff game (on paper and barring injury of course).
    Just to offer some hope that the sky isn't falling with the Korver trade. Yes, I realize that all three point shots are not created equal (and ones that come off a pass from lebron are especially more than equal), but korver and JR have shot fairly similarly from 3 over the past 2 years. I think the cavs fear jr won't be the same after wrist surgery and korver just replaces that. So, they'll be as good as last year, which is bad news. But this isn't some new form of team that means it's any more over than it was 2 weeks ago.

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    • Jclaw wrote: View Post
      Just to offer some hope that the sky isn't falling with the Korver trade. Yes, I realize that all three point shots are not created equal (and ones that come off a pass from lebron are especially more than equal), but korver and JR have shot fairly similarly from 3 over the past 2 years. I think the cavs fear jr won't be the same after wrist surgery and korver just replaces that. So, they'll be as good as last year, which is bad news. But this isn't some new form of team that means it's any more over than it was 2 weeks ago.
      Agreed. I think this is JR Smith insurance in case he's not 100 percent coming back from his injury. Korver will look great in Cleveland getting a ton of open looks - but if his minutes are coming because JR Smith is on the bench then the Raptors may actually be better off seeing that they've shot the 3 very similarly the last few seasons but Smith is the superior defender/everything else player.

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      • I'm not as worried about the Korver trade as others. I'm still trying to focus on the Raptors options to get better. Cleveland was going to be tough (impossible?) to beat in a conference finals rematch before the trade.

        I'm in on getting Millsap with a package resembling a combo of Ross/Sullinger/CoJo and a first rounder. I'd rather not give up Poeltl. Depth can help get you a good record in the regular season, but top end talent wins playoff series. I want another top end player, especially one that fits so nicely on paper. I'm also not scared about paying everyone in the offseason because with our cap situation this is the best/most realistic way to get that kind of talent anyway.

        Also, who says the Raptors are done after getting Millsap?

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        • Jclaw wrote: View Post
          Just to offer some hope that the sky isn't falling with the Korver trade. Yes, I realize that all three point shots are not created equal (and ones that come off a pass from lebron are especially more than equal), but korver and JR have shot fairly similarly from 3 over the past 2 years. I think the cavs fear jr won't be the same after wrist surgery and korver just replaces that. So, they'll be as good as last year, which is bad news. But this isn't some new form of team that means it's any more over than it was 2 weeks ago.
          What if JR comes back healthy? That's a lot of 3 & D around LeBron. Plus JR is I think is much more streaky of a shooter than Korver. With our without JR, this move makes the Cav's better. Hopefully their chemistry sucks.

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          • DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post
            If the alternative is giving up Pat to keep Sully whats the difference other than we know Pat makes every lineup better.
            With 2Pat we hold his Bird rights and resign him (say if Millsap were to leave us in sumer) for 8-12 or whatever his value is.
            With Sully no Bird rights and likely mid level or less.

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            • Just Is wrote: View Post
              Just got a Score notification stating that the Raptors hope to resign Patterson.
              Here is the article:
              http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/120...t-millsap-deal

              While Toronto certainly has the assets available to acquire an impact player like Paul Millsap, there are still a couple stumbling blocks that may prevent a deal, according to The Vertical's Shams Charania and Adrian Wojnarowski.

              First, the 31-year-old is expected to opt out of his player option for next season, meaning the Raptors will likely need to shell out close to $30 million annually to keep him long term. Second, Toronto is intent on re-signing power forward Patrick Patterson this offseason - a player that the Hawks would likely covet in a potential swap.
              Given that the Denver Nuggets and Sacramento Kings have reportedly also shown interest in Millsap, general manager Masai Ujiri may need to decide quickly whether he's willing to part with some of his assets in order to acquire the three-time All-Star.
              ... I'd try to hold on to 2Pat as well. Having both 2Pat and Millsap makes this teams so much better.

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              • Yeah, it makes sense that Patterson is the sticking point on this getting done. He makes so much sense for both teams: him and Millsap is what vaults Toronto into contender status. Him on Atlanta is what gives them a fighting chance at the playoffs this year and gives them a safety net in the offseason.

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                • planetmars wrote: View Post
                  Here is the article:
                  http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/120...t-millsap-deal





                  ... I'd try to hold on to 2Pat as well. Having both 2Pat and Millsap makes this teams so much better.
                  If we do hold on to 2pat we will only be able to go all in with that core for this postseason only.

                  With Lowry, Milsap & 2Pat all being FA this year the raps will only be able to keep 2 of them. If we try to sign all 3 we would be over the luxury tax of 122 million by 20-30 million. Only way to keep 3 would be to dump a combination of Joseph/Carroll/JV

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                  • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                    What if JR comes back healthy? That's a lot of 3 & D around LeBron. Plus JR is I think is much more streaky of a shooter than Korver. With our without JR, this move makes the Cav's better. Hopefully their chemistry sucks.
                    The tricky part for the Cavs is that they can only play with five players on the floor at a time. If you have Irving, Lebron, and Love out on the floor - you can't really have both JR Smith and Korver out on the floor as well - teams will simply drop the ball inside for easy buckets. The thinking that 40% shooting from 3-point is better than 55% shooting from inside the arc is nullified if the shooting% inside the line is closer to 100%. Neither Korver nor Love are known for their defensive ability, especially against players with lateral quickness.

                    If you are leaving one of the Cavs' "Big Three" off the floor to increase the three point barrage, the strategy might not work either - if you use the strategy when Irving's off the floor, you lose the drives into the lane that often creates the kick-out for an open look. If you use the strategy when LeBron's off the floor, it doesn't matter, as you're celebrating that LeBron's off the floor. Love has similar 3-point percentage to Korver this season, and can initiate offense in other ways than Korver.

                    Dunleavy's been playing about 15 MPG for the Cavs, while Korver's been getting almost 28 MPG. If you figure that Korver's minutes with the Cavs will fall in between those two numbers, then that minutes differential could come at the expense of minutes for Richard Jefferson or Channing Frye if the Cavs are wanting to go small (and Raptors fans know how well Jefferson and Frye shoot against the Raptors). They could also come at the expense of Jordan McRae's or Iman Shumpert's minutes, both of whom are better defensively than Korver, especially at keeping 'drivers' in front of them.

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                    • slamdunk23 wrote: View Post
                      If we do hold on to 2pat we will only be able to go all in with that core for this postseason only.

                      With Lowry, Milsap & 2Pat all being FA this year the raps will only be able to keep 2 of them. If we try to sign all 3 we would be over the luxury tax of 122 million by 20-30 million. Only way to keep 3 would be to dump a combination of Joseph/Carroll/JV
                      We'll be in tax with just Millsap and Lowry. Actually probably with just Lowry. I'm assume MLSE has no problem otherwise Masai wouldn't have chased Millsap last summer. But yeah.. we'd be paying lots of tax. There will be some limitations with trades and/or mid-level contracts that you can give out.. but as a fan I'm fine with it as long as ownership doesn't.

                      I'd rather have a combo of Millsap, Lowry, 2Pat than Carroll or CoJo. JV is an interesting one.. Poeltl could take his job eventually. But it might take at least two years for him to develop into that role.. assuming he's not traded in the package for Millsap. I don't believe Bebe is a starting caliber C in this league.

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                      • Ebonhawke wrote: View Post
                        The tricky part for the Cavs is that they can only play with five players on the floor at a time. If you have Irving, Lebron, and Love out on the floor - you can't really have both JR Smith and Korver out on the floor as well - teams will simply drop the ball inside for easy buckets. The thinking that 40% shooting from 3-point is better than 55% shooting from inside the arc is nullified if the shooting% inside the line is closer to 100%. Neither Korver nor Love are known for their defensive ability, especially against players with lateral quickness.

                        If you are leaving one of the Cavs' "Big Three" off the floor to increase the three point barrage, the strategy might not work either - if you use the strategy when Irving's off the floor, you lose the drives into the lane that often creates the kick-out for an open look. If you use the strategy when LeBron's off the floor, it doesn't matter, as you're celebrating that LeBron's off the floor. Love has similar 3-point percentage to Korver this season, and can initiate offense in other ways than Korver.

                        Dunleavy's been playing about 15 MPG for the Cavs, while Korver's been getting almost 28 MPG. If you figure that Korver's minutes with the Cavs will fall in between those two numbers, then that minutes differential could come at the expense of minutes for Richard Jefferson or Channing Frye if the Cavs are wanting to go small (and Raptors fans know how well Jefferson and Frye shoot against the Raptors). They could also come at the expense of Jordan McRae's or Iman Shumpert's minutes, both of whom are better defensively than Korver, especially at keeping 'drivers' in front of them.
                        It could potentially be a counter to the warriors death lineup of Curry-Klay-Iggy-KD-Dray. You could then play Lebron at the 4/5 and surround him with above average 3 point shooting at every other position.

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                        • slamdunk23 wrote: View Post
                          If we do hold on to 2pat we will only be able to go all in with that core for this postseason only.

                          With Lowry, Milsap & 2Pat all being FA this year the raps will only be able to keep 2 of them. If we try to sign all 3 we would be over the luxury tax of 122 million by 20-30 million. Only way to keep 3 would be to dump a combination of Joseph/Carroll/JV
                          What do we know about MLSE's current position on paying luxury tax though? Earlier in Masai's tenure they indicated they'd be willing to pay the tax when the time came, iirc.
                          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                          • planetmars wrote: View Post
                            We'll be in tax with just Millsap and Lowry. Actually probably with just Lowry. I'm assume MLSE has no problem otherwise Masai wouldn't have chased Millsap last summer. But yeah.. we'd be paying lots of tax. There will be some limitations with trades and/or mid-level contracts that you can give out.. but as a fan I'm fine with it as long as ownership doesn't.

                            I'd rather have a combo of Millsap, Lowry, 2Pat than Carroll or CoJo. JV is an interesting one.. Poeltl could take his job eventually. But it might take at least two years for him to develop into that role.. assuming he's not traded in the package for Millsap. I don't believe Bebe is a starting caliber C in this league.
                            I feel like MLSE is willing to go into the tax just not sure they want to go 30 million over the tax. I think the consequences of being that much over the cap is paying like 3 times that amount in tax.

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                            • I don't think the Patterson news today really changes the Raptors pursuit of Millsap. A package featuring 2Pat seems like a natural way to land Millsap but I think Masai will be motivated to get both on the Raptors team; otherwise we're not really solving the big match up problem we have with Cleveland and the other really good teams who can exploit JV at the end of games defensively.

                              Plus I'm really not 100% convinced of how attractive an asset that 2Pat is for Atlanta considering he's a "rental" himself and should have a long list of suitors this offseason, many of which will be a lot more competitive over the next few seasons than the suddenly rebuilding Atlanta Hawks. You have to think that the Hawks may actually prefer our younger assets that are locked in contractually for the next few seasons (Cojo, Poetl, Wright, Ross) or our draft assets. Patterson could easily bolt ATL in the summer.
                              Last edited by Fully; Fri Jan 6, 2017, 01:28 PM.

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                              • Tross, cojo and fillers for Milsap and thabo. God trade for both teams.


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