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The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

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  • Instead of portraying this as another owner-driven proposal, with an ultimatum to accept it or get slapped with a far worse one, it should've been described as the product of both sides' work and the best both sides could do. Players are tired of hearing Stern deliver ultimatums. They're tired of being backed into a corner, tired of having Stern say duplicitously that he won't negotiate in the media -- except for all the times he's negotiated in the media.

    If anybody knows that it's cool to be good at what you do, but that flaunting it just makes you come across as an arrogant show-off, it's professional athletes in general and basketball players in particular.
    So one way to avoid half the players in the league immediately turning on this proposal without even knowing what was in it would've been to stop showing everyone what a great negotiator and famous bully you are. A little more humility and a lot less gun-to-the-head, gotcha-moment cornering of the very people who make the money for these owners would've gone a long way.
    If this is, indeed, the best the league and the union can do, it should've been presented in a way that didn't turn the players against it from the jump.

    And yet there was Stern again Friday night, in a nationally televised interview with broadcast partner ESPN -- complicit in forcing this deal on the players whether it knows it or not -- pinning the blame for a lost season on the players if they don't accept his owners' offer.

    "It's all in the hands of the players," Stern said.
    If Stern delivered an offer the players cannot accept, in an offensive manner that turned them against it before they even read it, then that part is on the commissioner and his hard-line owners -- some of whom are just hoping this thing blows up so they can see their 47-percent proposal on the scroll of the league's broadcast partner. If hard-line agents are mobilizing to torpedo this deal, whatever it is, without seriously walking through the alternatives, then shame on them, too.
    Don't forget who won this negotiation in a landslide this week, but weren't happy until they got a monsoon and hurricane to go with it. There's such a thing as being careful what you wish for because you might just get it.

    Source: Ken Berger, CBSSports.com

    Comment


    • My predictions:

      1) This offer, as currently is, will be rejected.

      2) There will be one more negotiating session, Monday night, where the players will get one of the two sticking points they have left in their favour (double tax or full MLE permitted to take a team in to the tax - I would say the latter).

      3) There will be a 70 game season starting on December 17th.


      Via HoopsHype.com:

      Marc Stein: What I know for sure: David Stern didn't arbitrarily arrive at 72-game offer. To have a season, I'm told, Stern insists on at least 70 games. League VERY unhappy w/50-game sked in '99. Sources say Stern has conveyed to union deal must come soon so 2011-12 game count can start w/a 7 Twitter
      Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sat Nov 12, 2011, 11:08 AM.

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      • Matt52 wrote: View Post
        Maybe the league can throw the players a bone and be much more giving on the 30-40 secondary issues. It would help their cause in repairing damaged player/league relations. It would also help their cause should the players ever decertify. Most importantly, it would help my cause as a Raptors fan with the 2012 draft
        Are you saying changing the system to be more equitable is a valid proposition only if the current system is unfavorable to the Raptors in the short term?

        I'd love the Raptors to be competitive sooner than rather but I'd rather see the at-large minimum draft age issue be resolved.

        Comment


        • Hugmenot wrote: View Post
          Are you saying changing the system to be more equitable is a valid proposition only if the current system is unfavorable to the Raptors in the short term?

          I'd love the Raptors to be competitive sooner than rather but I'd rather see the at-large minimum draft age issue be resolved.
          I am hardpressed on why the minimum age issue is such a big deal for the PA. Allowing for an xtra year at school gives existing players more slots in the league and no doubt a good thing for everyone whether basketball related or not.

          Comment


          • Hugmenot wrote: View Post
            Are you saying changing the system to be more equitable is a valid proposition only if the current system is unfavorable to the Raptors in the short term?

            I'd love the Raptors to be competitive sooner than rather but I'd rather see the at-large minimum draft age issue be resolved.
            I'm not sure what you are asking.

            I was saying secondary system issues (draft for example) should go in the players favour as the owners destroyed them on everything else as it would also help the owners cause if the players ever decertify (they could say, "Look we gave them all these things they wanted.").

            I would like to see the draft age raised to 20 but, as a Raptors fan, it would really suck for 2012 with such a strong draft class and a high pick for the Raptors all but a certainty. Hopefully any CBA draft changes start in 2013 - again selfish Raptor fan reasons.

            Comment


            • David Falk says time for players to vote

              Source: NYTimes

              Comment


              • Lots of conflicting reports from 'sources'

                powellshaun Shaun Powell
                Source: "This the best deal the owners will extend, everyone understands that."
                powellshaun Shaun Powell
                Source added that the rank-and-file want to play, uninterested in decertifying or additional negotiations.

                powellshaun Shaun Powell
                Source told me if full membership votes on the owner's deal, NBA would open for business by Wednesday.

                powellshaun Shaun Powell
                "The players want to play, and they'll take the deal," he said. We'll see.

                powellshaun Shaun Powell
                Just finished speaking with a source who said he'd be "shocked" if the players reject the latest proposal.

                Who to believe?

                Comment


                • Does anyone know how many players (of 430) are below the 5 mill. line. I would think that this group would be more prone to vote yes for many more reasons.

                  Comment


                  • Bendit wrote: View Post
                    Does anyone know how many players (of 430) are below the 5 mill. line. I would think that this group would be more prone to vote yes for many more reasons.
                    In the NBA, using USA Today salary figures for the 2009-10 season, the estimated median salary was about $2.33 million. That's still about 46 times what the median U.S. household earns, but it is less than half what the max-salary-bloated "average" is.

                    http://www.nba.com/2011/news/feature...ary/index.html
                    So 215 make $2.33M or less.

                    Keep in mind a number of those players are on rookie deals.

                    I don't know how to figure out less than $5M without going through each team and that sounds painful.

                    Comment


                    • Thanks...yes it would be!! Thats quite an eyeopener number..so if those who made upto 5 mil. took that number to about 300 plus ...I have a hard time figuring out what is it this majority group would be fighting for by rejecting the current offer. A fairly minimal number of them would reach the star-superstar status which is really the group being impacted on and that is mostly on movement issues at that. Most of the group I raise really have very little say on where they play but a lot to lose if they dont. A secret ballot as well changes the dynamic of the vote.

                      Comment


                      • Bendit wrote: View Post
                        Does anyone know how many players (of 430) are below the 5 mill. line. I would think that this group would be more prone to vote yes for many more reasons.
                        Those mid level players are the ones that are really going to feel the financial squeeze if this "final offer" is ratified by the NBAPA. The veteran star players will still get their top dollar and the star players with less than 5 years in the league (Durant, Griffin, Wall, etc.) will continue to be underpaid in terms of their value to their teams, while the mid level players will feel the crunch the most with the drop in BRI from 57% to 50%, which is a drop in total players' salaries of 12.3%.

                        The other factor working against all players is that the average NBA career is just 4 seasons. To lose a season would reduce the average career by 25%.

                        Comment


                        • Bendit wrote: View Post
                          Thanks...yes it would be!! Thats quite an eyeopener number..so if those who made upto 5 mil. took that number to about 300 plus ...I have a hard time figuring out what is it this majority group would be fighting for by rejecting the current offer. A fairly minimal number of them would reach the star-superstar status which is really the group being impacted on and that is mostly on movement issues at that. Most of the group I raise really have very little say on where they play but a lot to lose if they dont. A secret ballot as well changes the dynamic of the vote.
                          Plus the NBA created another $2.5M exemption for teams.

                          I think the majority are fighting on the principle of what they feel is 'fair'. They do not seem to realize that:
                          1) previous CBA's were very much in their favour,
                          2) the cost of producing every dollar of revenue has risen for owners,
                          3) they have been shielded from the harsh realities of the economic world over the last 4-5 years.

                          Comment


                          • stretch wrote: View Post
                            Those mid level players are the ones that are really going to feel the financial squeeze if this "final offer" is ratified by the NBAPA. The veteran star players will still get their top dollar and the star players with less than 5 years in the league (Durant, Griffin, Wall, etc.) will continue to be underpaid in terms of their value to their teams, while the mid level players will feel the crunch the most with the drop in BRI from 57% to 50%, which is a drop in total players' salaries of 12.3%.

                            The other factor working against all players is that the average NBA career is just 4 seasons. To lose a season would reduce the average career by 25%.
                            I disagree.

                            The payroll floor - i.e. the minimum amount a team must spend - will go from $43.5M to 49.3M for the first 2 years and then to $52.2M for remainder of the contract. Percentage wise that is 75% of the cap to 85% for 2 years and then 90% after that.

                            A new $2.5M exemption has been added.

                            For over 50% of the league, this deal is better for them.

                            As for the BRI drop, they have been guaranteed to keep the salary cap and luxury tax at the same amount for 2 years ($58M/$70M). The players will most likely not get the escrow back but, except for last season first time ever, that is nothing new.

                            Comment


                            • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              I disagree.

                              The payroll floor - i.e. the minimum amount a team must spend - will go from $43.5M to 49.3M for the first 2 years and then to $52.2M for remainder of the contract. Percentage wise that is 75% of the cap to 85% for 2 years and then 90% after that.

                              A new $2.5M exemption has been added.

                              For over 50% of the league, this deal is better for them.

                              As for the BRI drop, they have been guaranteed to keep the salary cap and luxury tax at the same amount for 2 years ($58M/$70M). The players will most likely not get the escrow back but, except for last season first time ever, that is nothing new.
                              I don't understand. The numbers I am seeing are a 7% reduction in BRI portion for the players, a 12.3% total reduction in players salaries if the BRI maintains at 4 billion per season, which it will not due to a shortened season this year, the overall negative effect of the lockout and, of course, the economy.
                              Last edited by stretch; Sat Nov 12, 2011, 02:41 PM.

                              Comment


                              • stretch wrote: View Post
                                Those mid level players are the ones that are really going to feel the financial squeeze if this "final offer" is ratified by the NBAPA. The veteran star players will still get their top dollar and the star players with less than 5 years in the league (Durant, Griffin, Wall, etc.) will continue to be underpaid in terms of their value to their teams, while the mid level players will feel the crunch the most with the drop in BRI from 57% to 50%, which is a drop in total players' salaries of 12.3%.

                                The other factor working against all players is that the average NBA career is just 4 seasons. To lose a season would reduce the average career by 25%.
                                There is certainly a giveback by the players. But you have to factor in the losses claimed by the owners which makes the players theoretically having benefited from the last agreement. With the possibility of a better upcoming TV agreement the new (50%) portion of bri may well supersede the old 57% going forward in total dollars...and if this happens to drastically favour the owners it will certainly be an issue to be fought over again come the next cba renewal. The pendulum always swings. In the old cba in my view the factors governing movement were quite flawed which was leading to a two tiered league....and that too severely unequal in numbers.

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