#FireCasey

[Wild-ling#1]

Because your defences of Casey have become more outlandish.

The topic in question was: JV doesn't get many assists and most feel that this isn't a skill that can be assessed for JV since assist numbers under Casey are low for all players.

You then go on explaining that Lowry's assist numbers are at least comparable to his previous seasons - so you are clinging to the one player that has maintained assists under Casey and ignoring the facts that support the original point. You then make up excuses for Lowry's bad numbers this season, starting with injuries (even though his numbers were equal before injuries) and then sample size (even though the numbers have been consistent all year).

So while you continually beat the Lowry assist numbers drum (a debatable result) it is fairly irrelevant to the original point, which is greatly supported by the decline in team assists in each of the last 3 years and the decline of individual assist rates for pretty much every other player.

Choosing to argue the statistical outlier while completely ignoring all other stats, in defence of Casey, without addressing the actual point of the discussion does make you seem like the ultimate Casey apologist.

I sought only to respond to a single (Raptors999) statement that "The assist numbers for all players have plummeted under Casey".

No more. In responding, I have pointed out that three of Lowry's four best assist years (measured by ast/100 possessions) have come with the Raptors, under Casey.

I did not deny that other players assist numbers have dropped. I did not try to make any sort of broader point (or defense of Casey).

(I did, at one point, as the discussion went on, dare to suggest that Scola's recent usage, and aging, and our injuries, might account for some drop-off - and that it's very early days to be talking about Carroll in this context.)

Still, you insist that I have talked a lot of Casey-supporting hooey. Say that I have been "clinging" to the point. That my posts have been "outlandish".

This doesn't really surprise me. But it is what it is.

[Axel]

I sought only to respond to a single (Raptors999) statement that "The assist numbers for all players have plummeted under Casey".

No more. In responding, I have pointed out that three of Lowry's four best assist years (measured by ast/100 possessions) have come with the Raptors, under Casey.

I did not deny that other players assist numbers have dropped. I did not try to make any sort of broader point (or defense of Casey).

(I did, at one point, suggest that Scola's recent usage and aging might account for some drop-off and that it's very early days to be talking about Carroll in this context.)

Still, you insist that I have talked a lot of Casey-supporting hooey. Say that I have been "clinging" to the point. That my posts have been "outlandish".

This doesn't really surprise me. But it is what it is.

Lowry's assist numbers have decreased each of the last 3 years under Casey, by any statistical measure (per game, per36, per 100, Assist%), and raptors999 point was about a larger topic. So it really doesn't sound like you have much of a point, so yes, makes you sound like you're desperately looking for a way to defend Casey when there really isn't any.

[danno]

Lowry's assist numbers have decreased each of the last 3 years under Casey, by any statistical measure (per game, per36, per 100, Assist%), and raptors999 point was about a larger topic. So it really doesn't sound like you have much of a point, so yes, makes you sound like you're desperately looking for a way to defend Casey when there really isn't any.

#FireCasey

[Wild-ling#1]

Lowry's assist numbers have decreased each of the last 3 years under Casey, by any statistical measure (per game, per36, per 100, Assist%), and raptors999 point was about a larger topic. So it really doesn't sound like you have much of a point, so yes, makes you sound like you're desperately looking for a way to defend Casey when there really isn't any.

Raptors999 offered a supporting premise to a larger argument. I argued that the premise itself was false. Pretty sure there's nothing wrong with that.

As for the statistics ... Yes, his assist numbers have decreased over the last three years. But, still, each of these year's assist numbers (this current, partial year aside) has been higher than all but one of the previous six years of his career (under any other coach).

If what I have just said is factually incorrect, feel free to correct it, of course.

But to speak only of the last three years is to take those years out of the context of his overall career.

[Axel]

[Wild-ling#1]

Best not to comment directly on the foregoing, I think.











But images can speak volumes, to be sure ...





[But I'd be more than happy to leave this there. ]

[raptors999]

Raptors999 offered a supporting premise to a larger argument. I argued that the premise itself was false. Pretty sure there's nothing wrong with that.

As for the statistics ... Yes, his assist numbers have decreased over the last three years. But, still, each of these year's assist numbers (this current, partial year aside) has been higher than all but one of the previous six years of his career (under any other coach).

If what I have just said is factually incorrect, feel free to correct it, of course.

But to speak only of the last three years is to take those years out of the context of his overall career.

So, comparing rookie years means anything. Every player under Casey stops passing which verified by any eye test and supported statistically and admitted by Casey himself who hates turn overs, one-handed passes, bounce passes and practicing offense or Demar passing more than scoring

[S.R.]

I mean the interesting thing is that Casey's philosophy re: ball movement is antithetical to the way the entire league is trending. Part of me is curious to see if Lowry and DD are healthier and even slightly better this spring than the last two springs, and if the defense holds at a top 10 level, can this translate into any kind of postseason success? Is it necessarily doomed because it's not what everybody else is doing?

It's definitely hard, offensively, for spot-up shooting role players. Ball dominant guards love it though (at least the ISO scoring part). Pretty sure Lou Williams playing like he is in LA right now doesn't get the same payday the Raptors helped him get last summer.

[raptors999]

I mean the interesting thing is that Casey's philosophy re: ball movement is antithetical to the way the entire league is trending. Part of me is curious to see if Lowry and DD are healthier and even slightly better this spring than the last two springs, and if the defense holds at a top 10 level, can this translate into any kind of postseason success? Is it necessarily doomed because it's not what everybody else is doing?

It's definitely hard, offensively, for spot-up shooting role players. Ball dominant guards love it though (at least the ISO scoring part). Pretty sure Lou Williams playing like he is in LA right now doesn't get the same payday the Raptors helped him get last summer.

It also doesn't match his own stated ideologies. How many defensive coaches plays a non-passing, rebounding or shooting small ball lineup that avoids the post

[Axel]

I mean the interesting thing is that Casey's philosophy re: ball movement is antithetical to the way the entire league is trending. Part of me is curious to see if Lowry and DD are healthier and even slightly better this spring than the last two springs, and if the defense holds at a top 10 level, can this translate into any kind of postseason success? Is it necessarily doomed because it's not what everybody else is doing?

It's definitely hard, offensively, for spot-up shooting role players. Ball dominant guards love it though (at least the ISO scoring part). Pretty sure Lou Williams playing like he is in LA right now doesn't get the same payday the Raptors helped him get last summer.

The other amazing thing for Casey's lack of ball movement to prevent turnovers, Charlotte is 10th in potential assists, 13th in assists and leads the league with fewest turn overs per game. Raptors are only 11th in fewest turnovers with their dead last assists.

[Mess]

The other amazing thing for Casey's lack of ball movement to prevent turnovers, Charlotte is 10th in potential assists, 13th in assists and leads the league with fewest turn overs per game. Raptors are only 11th in fewest turnovers with their dead last assists.

Because they're not passing to Bismack anymore

[Wild-ling#1]

So, comparing rookie years means anything. Every player under Casey stops passing which verified by any eye test and supported statistically and admitted by Casey himself who hates turn overs, one-handed passes, bounce passes and practicing offense or Demar passing more than scoring

As I've said before, I'm really and truly on the fence about Casey.

And I don't suggest - for a single minute - that we're as good a passing team as we will need to be to take that "next step".

And I have listened, long and quite carefully, to Casey's detractors ... and I have learned quite a bit from doing so, I think.

But ... (hmmm - how to put this briefly ...). Well, either:

1) Casey has been (and may continue to be) incapable of teaching/insisting upon a changed style of play, OR ...

2) He has had different developmental goals, for each of the players and the team. And possibly different priorities. Which is to say that he's taken a longer view, I guess, of what can and should have been accomplished, thus far.

(Perhaps there are other variables. I do think, though, that Casey's detractors have been too quick to blame him when personnel or injury issues have played a part in the team's struggles.)

Anyway, like everyone who is not entirely convinced, one way or the other, I await the results of this - pivotal, I think - season. As does Masai, I'd guess. I am, so far, prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt on issues that arise, for as long as he's here. In that sense I do "support" him. But if Masai decided "enough is enough" later this very day, I'd admit that Masai has (finally) concluded that Casey's detractors have been proven right - and offer them full credit for their perspicacity - before beginning to look eagerly forward to the new coach's attempts to improve the team ...

[Axel]

2) He has had different developmental goals, for each of the players and the team. And possibly different priorities. Which is to say that he's taken a longer view, I guess, of what can and should have been accomplished, thus far.

Are you suggesting that developmental curve is somehow relevant to the lack of passing/assists?

[tDotted]

And I don't suggest - for a single minute - that we're as good a passing team as we will need to be to take that "next step".

Ahaha I remember when Casey said we didn't have the personnel to pass, even though Vasquez led the league in assists just a couple of seasons before. Good times.

[S.R.]

I do miss good p'n'r passes. Amir also had great hands and finishing ability on the roll: