Everything Derozan

[golden]

Wow, I had no idea Isaiah Thomas was THAT good this year. That's crazy.

Thomas is a hugely under-rated player, probably because his height. But it's not the first time he's been elite - he's always up there in the ORTG/USG test, even back when he played with DMC on the Kings, which is hard to do. Obiviously, he can be a liability on D at times, but still... pound-for-pound, he's amazing.

[Axel]

Thomas is a hugely under-rated player, probably because his height. But it's not the first time he's been elite - he's always up there in the ORTG/USG test, even back when he played with DMC on the Kings, which is hard to do. Obiviously, he can be a liability on D at times, but still... pound-for-pound, he's amazing.

Funny, I was thinking about him earlier today when I was reading an article about first time All-stars for this season, and Thomas should be on the East roster yet didn't see his name really come up when discussing DD's competition for a roster spot.

[golden]

Lmao Curry

Curry is entering the rarified company of Jordan & Lebron in their prime. Kobe never got anywhere close to those levels of efficiency. I don't see how Curry can maintain that, but he's definitely proved everybody wrong to get to this point. Easily the greatest pure shooter ever.

[Barolt]

Curry is entering the rarified company of Jordan & Lebron in their prime. Kobe never got anywhere close to those levels of efficiency. I don't see how Curry can maintain that, but he's definitely proved everybody wrong to get to this point. Easily the greatest pure shooter ever.

I don't understand the need to crap on Kobe here. Curry has a very talented supporting cast, as did Jordan during his entire prime. The things Kobe did between 2006-08 with a mostly limited supporting cast were nothing short of amazing, and some of the best offensive basketball anyone's ever played.

The 2005-06 Lakers went to the playoffs in a very tough Western Conference with Chris Mihm, Brian Cook and Smush Parker playing huge minutes.

[Axel]

I don't understand the need to crap on Kobe here. Curry has a very talented supporting cast, as did Jordan during his entire prime. The things Kobe did between 2006-08 with a mostly limited supporting cast were nothing short of amazing, and some of the best offensive basketball anyone's ever played.

The 2005-06 Lakers went to the playoffs in a very tough Western Conference with Chris Mihm, Brian Cook and Smush Parker playing huge minutes.

Is it really crapping on Kobe to say he didn't reach MJ levels of efficiency?

[Barolt]

Is it really crapping on Kobe to say he didn't reach MJ levels of efficiency?

I just didn't understand the need to even bring up his name there in that context. It's 'crapping on him' to toss his name in just to say he wasn't good when it adds nothing to the conversation. It'd be like having a conversation about the best 3pt shooters in the league and throwing in DeMar's name just to say he sucks at shooting 3s. It's pointless if nothing else.

[Wild-ling#1]

Funny, I was thinking about him earlier today when I was reading an article about first time All-stars for this season, and Thomas should be on the East roster yet didn't see his name really come up when discussing DD's competition for a roster spot.

In the case of the "All things considered ... DeMar DeRozan for All-Star" thread, I may have been fooled by B-ball Reference and ESPN listing him as a point guard.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...n/point-guards.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...thomais02.html

If his numbers were included with other Eastern Conference SG's on that thread, his stat line would be:

Isaiah Thomas 20pts/game, 32.1 MPG, 6.7 AST/game, WS 3.0, PER 21.84.

But should he be added as an SG?

[Axel]

I just didn't understand the need to even bring up his name there in that context. It's 'crapping on him' to toss his name in just to say he wasn't good when it adds nothing to the conversation. It'd be like having a conversation about the best 3pt shooters in the league and throwing in DeMar's name just to say he sucks at shooting 3s. It's pointless if nothing else.

Disagree, think he was merely pointing out that Curry has transcended one of the best scorers of all time and is now producing at one of the most elite rates ever seen.

[Axel]

In the case of the "All things considered ... DeMar DeRozan for All-Star" thread, I may have been fooled by B-ball Reference and ESPN listing him as a point guard.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...n/point-guards.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...thomais02.html

If his numbers were included with other Eastern Conference SG's on that thread, his stat line would be:

Isaiah Thomas 20pts/game, 32.1 MPG, 6.7 AST/game, WS 3.0, PER 21.84.

But should he be added as an SG?

A touché.

In terms of reserves though, don't think the positional split between PG and SG matters much though; coaches balance between bigs and guards more than pure position.

[Barolt]

Disagree, think he was merely pointing out that Curry has transcended one of the best scorers of all time and is now producing at one of the most elite rates ever seen.

Fair enough, I can understand that point of view. At the time I read it differently and felt it was appropriate to point out taht despite Kobe's lack of efficiency in his career, he did things that very few have ever been capable of doing.

[Just Is]

A touché.

In terms of reserves though, don't think the positional split between PG and SG matters much though; coaches balance between bigs and guards more than pure position.

Yeah, it actually wouldn't be surprising to see no actual SGs make the team on the West side of things.

[Barolt]

Yeah, it actually wouldn't be surprising to see no actual SGs make the team on the West side of things.

Harden will be there. Even in his down year this year, when you actually look at his stats, any other SG in the league would be thrilled with those numbers. Harden has a 25.4 PER, .187 WS/48 and .577 TS%. He's still the best 2-guard in the league.

[Just Is]

Harden will be there. Even in his down year this year, when you actually look at his stats, any other SG in the league would be thrilled with those numbers. Harden has a 25.4 PER, .187 WS/48 and .577 TS%. He's still the best 2-guard in the league.

I actually completely blanked on Harden. The only SG I was thinking was Bledsoe but, yeah, it would be Harden.

Wait, I forgot Klay could be an option as well.

Yeah, I just blank on SGs now despite it historically being my favourite position.

[golden]

I don't understand the need to crap on Kobe here. Curry has a very talented supporting cast, as did Jordan during his entire prime. The things Kobe did between 2006-08 with a mostly limited supporting cast were nothing short of amazing, and some of the best offensive basketball anyone's ever played.

The 2005-06 Lakers went to the playoffs in a very tough Western Conference with Chris Mihm, Brian Cook and Smush Parker playing huge minutes.

Because crapping on Kobe is fun. LOL.

But in all seriousness, the numbers reveal the harsh reality that Kobe was, in fact, a volume scorer, with a capital V. Kobe never achieved an ORTG efficency above 115 in his entire career, and efficiency is basically our complaint about DD here.

Again, for comparison, look at the cream-of-the-crop in NBA history (USG > 30%), sorted by ORTG. Notice who is near the bottom? Yep. Black Mamba. This is even worse when you realize that these are Kobe 2 BEST seasons in his entire career.

http://bkref.com/tiny/CQm9U

The reality is that Kobe is the last of the superstars in the era before advanced analytics. That was back in a time when flat-out chuckers like Antoine Walker used to make all-star games. Guys like Kobe are all-time greats, no question, but our perception of how great guys like Kobe truly were, is skewed. Again, the reality is that Kobe benefited a lot more from his teammates (especially Shaq), far more than any other superstar of his class; in comparison to Steph Curry, who is actually lifting his teammates up to championship level solely based on his historic level of efficiency and usage.

Conversely, guys like Karl Malone never got enough credit for the sheer offensive domination year-after-year. Malone, is actually the guy you should be saying never had the benefit of enough talent around him.

[Barolt]

I agree that Kobe wasn't efficient. But, when you look at that 2006 season and the load he was carrying, what he did was simply ridiculous.

38.7% Usage rate, .224 WS/48, playing 41 minutes per game, 114 Ortg. The second highest usage rate on the team among players playing more than 1000 minutes was Chris Mihm. He took that team to the playoffs. That's insane from any perspective.