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  • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I really think JV could be in play as well. Deebo and Dd are the only two untouchable. With Sully/Bebe/Poeltl raps will be fine at C.

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    I would not give up JV for potentially a 1 year rental of Milsap. Even though he doesn't really mesh with our main guys he's too valuable as a starting center on a very valuable contract. Also I don't think we should expect a 3 or 4 team trade were ten players are being traded that never happens in the NBA.

    I still think Ross, 2pat/Sully & other prospects/picks trade is the best move with a possible Korver or sefolosha coming back also to make up for the loss of ross.

    Comment


    • slamdunk23 wrote: View Post
      I would not give up JV for potentially a 1 year rental of Milsap. Even though he doesn't really mesh with our main guys he's too valuable as a starting center on a very valuable contract. Also I don't think we should expect a 3 or 4 team trade were ten players are being traded that never happens in the NBA.

      I still think Ross, 2pat/Sully & other prospects/picks trade is the best move with a possible Korver or sefolosha coming back also to make up for the loss of ross.
      Eventually JV will become a bench player. Just like other players Al Jefferson, Kanter, Vuc, Monroe. Its really a matter of time. You need to sell high on him now.

      Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
      @Chr1st1anL

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      • slamdunk23 wrote: View Post
        I would not give up JV for potentially a 1 year rental of Milsap. Even though he doesn't really mesh with our main guys he's too valuable as a starting center on a very valuable contract. Also I don't think we should expect a 3 or 4 team trade were ten players are being traded that never happens in the NBA.

        I still think Ross, 2pat/Sully & other prospects/picks trade is the best move with a possible Korver or sefolosha coming back also to make up for the loss of ross.
        They're not common but Masai himself has been involved in two that I can think of off the top of my head. The Melo trade (3 teams and like 12 players) and the Dwight trade where Denver acquired Iguodala (4 teams and 11 players)

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        • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
          Neither am I lol yes granted Corey, Ross and JV would account for about $32M/yr but you know Kyle is getting $23+M guaranteed, I would think Millsap even if you sold him on being part of a contender for the end of his career will still be looking for at least $17M+/yr (very low end imo) which would already be about $40+M and now you need to try and re-sign a young Noel who thinks of himself as a star in this league (just his take) but I don't imagine he does anything less than $13-14M/yr best case scenario so I just can't see us taking the gamble on both.

          If we did trade for Paul, I think we would be scouring the league to find some other option to defend the post that won't cost anywhere near as much.
          This is the price of contention.

          Kyle's future deal is almost a sunk cost. You're not letting him walk without rebuilding the team.

          Cory/Ross/JV is $33.7 million next year.

          You're looking at two max/near-maxes for Noel/Millsap. Let's say roughly $25mm each, incrementally it's only an additional $16mm. We'll be deep in the tax I think, but

          Lowry/Wright
          DD/Powell
          Covington/Carroll
          Millsap/Siakam
          Noel/Bebe

          is a legit title contender imo. We're talking about a team that could legitimately be one of the best defensive teams of the decade, and can also score.
          It’s Ogugua season. Time to gugua.

          Comment


          • Scraptor wrote: View Post
            This is the price of contention.

            Kyle's future deal is almost a sunk cost. You're not letting him walk without rebuilding the team.

            Cory/Ross/JV is $33.7 million next year.

            You're looking at two max/near-maxes for Noel/Millsap. Let's say roughly $25mm each, incrementally it's only an additional $16mm. We'll be deep in the tax I think, but

            Lowry/Wright
            DD/Powell
            Covington/Carroll
            Millsap/Siakam
            Noel/Bebe

            is a legit title contender imo. We're talking about a team that could legitimately be one of the best defensive teams of the decade, and can also score.
            Oh I'm sold on the fit and actually LOVE it but I'm just wondering how deep in the luxury tax would we be (never really been much of a capologist lol) and would we really be willing to be the repeater's tax for multiple years?!? I have a very hard time seeing that happen but who knows.

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            • Scraptor wrote: View Post
              This is the price of contention.

              Kyle's future deal is almost a sunk cost. You're not letting him walk without rebuilding the team.

              Cory/Ross/JV is $33.7 million next year.

              You're looking at two max/near-maxes for Noel/Millsap. Let's say roughly $25mm each, incrementally it's only an additional $16mm. We'll be deep in the tax I think, but

              Lowry/Wright
              DD/Powell
              Covington/Carroll
              Millsap/Siakam
              Noel/Bebe

              is a legit title contender imo. We're talking about a team that could legitimately be one of the best defensive teams of the decade, and can also score.
              What if we trade Carroll for picks and minimum salary back AFTER the playoffs ?
              Abbas wrote:

              First of all i was my own source

              Comment


              • GinobilisBaldSpot wrote: View Post


                A modified version of golden's proposed trade. Also send LAC's 2017 first rounder (and TOR's if needed) to ATL. Works for all 3 teams for the most part imo. The only complications I see are maybe that it's not enough for PHI and, as previously stated in this thread, reliance on Delon Wright as the backup PG.

                EDIT: I guess I should explain my inclusion of Noel and Convington to the Raptors, as I know looking through this thread opinion has been divided on both. With a star player like Millsap incoming, I figured there would be even less touches for our current center, JV. As a result, I feel it would be more beneficial to the team as a whole to have a low usage center who can rim run, protect the paint, and be a versatile defender (Noel, Patterson, Millsap, Bebe...imagine the possibilities). As for Covington, he's good insurance for the Demarre Carrol who has been inconsistent this season, obviously not as good a shooter but arguably a better matchup physically for the bigger SF's (like that one Cleveland guy).
                This would be one of the best trades I've seen proposed on this board except New Orleans isn't giving enough and Atlanta isn't getting enough. Jonas is far more valuable than the oft-injured Tyreke Evans.

                I modified it to include Boston instead of New Orleans, so that Boston sends Jaylen Brown and Amir Johnson in return for Jonas, and that worked. Jonas solves Boston's rebounding issues and pairs well with Al Horford at the 4.

                Atlanta would have to clear roster space and there's probably other issues but it would make sense. I like the basic idea of acquiring Millsap and Noel simultaneously. Biggest issue would be getting chemistry working in the two months before the playoffs but I think we'd figure it out.
                It’s Ogugua season. Time to gugua.

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                • Abbas wrote: View Post
                  What if we trade Carroll for picks and minimum salary back AFTER the playoffs ?
                  Haha whose giving picks for Carroll?!?

                  Better who the heck would even want just Carroll?!?

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                  • Abbas wrote: View Post
                    What if we trade Carroll for picks and minimum salary back AFTER the playoffs ?
                    We're not getting picks for Carroll. Unless he really breaks out, he's a negative contract and we'd have to attach assets to get rid of him.
                    It’s Ogugua season. Time to gugua.

                    Comment


                    • I wonder if Masai can get Milsap without giving up Powell. If he can, I think thats an easy decision, if you have to give him up there is more of a debate to be made.

                      Comment


                      • Second rounder ?
                        Abbas wrote:

                        First of all i was my own source

                        Comment


                        • DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post
                          I wonder if Masai can get Milsap without giving up Powell. If he can, I think thats an easy decision, if you have to give him up there is more of a debate to be made.
                          I actually doubt you do and it's far more likely to be Ross for salary matching and his shooting will be missed. The thing I really don't like either is the idea of giving away both picks for what could be a rental and I think we're going to need at least one if we were in fact able to keep him just to have cheap young talent. Possibly one but we need cheap rookie contracts with the impending contracts of Lowry and then Milsap. I'd do something like Corey, Ross, Sully + maybe one pick which is pretty great return for a player that is certainly walking on them.

                          Comment


                          • Abbas wrote: View Post
                            Second rounder ?
                            The point is what team wants a guy who has been trash for $15M/yr?! Why would a team want to give up anything to inherit a bad contract?! You really, really need to sell a young team on needing a veteran and absorbing the contract just given his utter lack of production not sure why a team would want that.

                            Comment


                            • Let's say we did Ginobili's deal (I think there's some issues with it though). Here's what the summer situation looks like with CoJo, Sully, Ross and JV's deals going out and Covington, Millsap, Nerlens coming in. Source: Basketball Insiders

                              Guaranteed Salaries Owed in 2017-18:
                              DeMar DeRozan: $27,739,975
                              DeMarre Carroll: $14,800,000
                              Jakob Poeltl: $2,947,320
                              Lucas Nogueira: $2,947,305
                              Bruno Caboclo: $2,451,225
                              Delon Wright: $1,645,200
                              Pascal Siakam: $1,249,920
                              Norman Powell (TO): $1,014,746
                              Total: $55,579,260

                              Then you have Lowry, Millsap, Nerlens as the main free agents you need to bring back.

                              Now let's say worst case scenario where all 3 guys require a max to bring them back. That's just under $92M in total right there based on a $102M cap projection (You're paying Lowry and Millsap $33.6M each in the first year and Noel $24M). So you're looking at a $147M payroll with 11 players signed. Toss in our draft pick and a few minimums to fill out the roster and let's just round it to about a $150M payroll.

                              Luxury tax threshold should be around $122M in 2017-18 so we'd be in the highest bracket of tax "offense" being over $28M over the tax. Which means MLSE would pay $3.75 per dollar for the first $20M over ($75M) and then another $4.25 for the next $8M ($34M - not 100% sure if it's $4.25M for 5M then $4.75 for 3M or this way). So you're looking at like $110M in luxury tax payments on top of $150M for the players' wages.

                              That's the absolute worst case scenario but yeah it's pretty bad. Especially when you consider we'd be getting hit by the repeater tax afterwards.

                              Comment


                              • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                                Oh I'm sold on the fit and actually LOVE it but I'm just wondering how deep in the luxury tax would we be (never really been much of a capologist lol) and would we really be willing to be the repeater's tax for multiple years?!? I have a very hard time seeing that happen but who knows.
                                Back of the envelope math:

                                DeMar $27.7mm
                                Carroll $14.8mm
                                Poeltl $2.8mm
                                Bebe $2.9mm
                                Bruno $2.5mm
                                Delon $1.6mm
                                Siakam $1.2mm
                                Norm $1.0mm
                                FVV $0.9mm

                                is $55.4mm.

                                Let's say
                                $30mm for Kyle
                                $30mm for Paul
                                $25mm for Noel

                                That's $85mm + $55mm = $140mm.

                                Tax is at $122mm... so yeah it'd be pretty steep. But Carroll's deal would expire before we hit the repeater penalty, which kicks in when you've paid luxury tax 3 of 4 years.

                                It's a huge gamble, given that:
                                a) Kyle and Paul are 31/32.
                                b) Noel is still somewhat unproven.

                                But the new CBA is going to make it really, really hard to steal another team's young star. This may be our only window to add talent for a while.

                                That said, considering what Zach Lowe said about Masai's risk aversion, I'm guessing the odds of something like this happening are less than 10%.
                                It’s Ogugua season. Time to gugua.

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