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  • slaw wrote: View Post

    This is irrelevant. You can only compare contracts to other similarly situated players in terms of years and time of signing. This is absolutely in the market compared to his peers and may even be below market without the fifth year.
    Yeah, I know how market dynamics work and Pascal took full advantage of the timing. Like I said, good for him. I was hoping he would have been a bit less greedy, but I guess the days of Duncan, Ginobili and Parker taking hometown discounts are ancient history.

    I mean, you could compare Pascal to Murray and Simmons (full max), but you could also use Jaylen Brown and Buddy Hield's offers as comps (20-22M/yr). I thought he would end up coming somewhere in between, say 25-27M/year. That said, after Pascal's deal, Brown and Buddy probably aren't going to take those offers.

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    • golden wrote: View Post

      Yeah, I know how market dynamics work and Pascal took full advantage of the timing. Like I said, good for him. I was hoping he would have been a bit less greedy, but I guess the days of Duncan, Ginobili and Parker taking hometown discounts are ancient history.

      I mean, you could compare Pascal to Murray and Simmons (full max), but you could also use Jaylen Brown and Buddy Hield's offers as comps (20-22M/yr). I thought he would end up coming somewhere in between, say 25-27M/year. That said, after Pascal's deal, Brown and Buddy probably aren't going to take those offers.
      Everyone looks up to Lebron, and Lebron is no longer taking any more pay cuts. It's a business and players will take every inch they can. I bet all the players, ie) his peers, are really happy for him.

      The only home court discount now a days is term.. and even that means nothing when a guy can demand a trade like PG just did this summer, or AD did last year.

      Best NBA contracts will be for guys that under perform into their second contract, sign a long term secure deal, and then become MIP candidates overnight. Pascal's growth came 1 year too early.

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      • Siakam was the second best player on a championship team. Brown is the fourth or fifth (?) option in Boston and is coming off a disappointing season. Hield is a nice player but he’s a step or two below Pascal.

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        • planetmars wrote: View Post

          Everyone looks up to Lebron, and Lebron is no longer taking any more pay cuts. It's a business and players will take every inch they can. I bet all the players, ie) his peers, are really happy for him.

          The only home court discount now a days is term.. and even that means nothing when a guy can demand a trade like PG just did this summer, or AD did last year.

          Best NBA contracts will be for guys that under perform into their second contract, sign a long term secure deal, and then become MIP candidates overnight. Pascal's growth came 1 year too early.
          Pascal's growth helped us win a championship. If Pascal continues to improve, he becomes star player and the contract is worth, if he doesn't, then he already proved he is the second scoring option on a championship team. 2020 free agency isn't good, 2021 will be a crazy one though and some of our players come off the books.

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          • golden wrote: View Post

            Yeah, I know how market dynamics work and Pascal took full advantage of the timing. Like I said, good for him. I was hoping he would have been a bit less greedy, but I guess the days of Duncan, Ginobili and Parker taking hometown discounts are ancient history.
            why should he, at this stage? he's been a massive bargain as a late first round pick, it's the first big contract of his career, and we're set to have a fuckload of cap space anyway. if we were pressed cap-wise that might make a bit of sense but we have quite a bit of flexibility.

            golden wrote: View Post
            I mean, you could compare Pascal to Murray and Simmons (full max), but you could also use Jaylen Brown and Buddy Hield's offers as comps (20-22M/yr). I thought he would end up coming somewhere in between, say 25-27M/year. That said, after Pascal's deal, Brown and Buddy probably aren't going to take those offers.
            i expect him to be better than all five of those guys so it's probably a good deal.

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            • slaw wrote: View Post
              Siakam was the second best player on a championship team. Brown is the fourth or fifth (?) option in Boston and is coming off a disappointing season. Hield is a nice player but he’s a step or two below Pascal.
              Good lord.... if Masai allows every Raptor player agent to use the " ______ player on a championship team" line against him in contract negotiations, then we're doomed. Every guy on our roster is going to be overpaid..... and the guy most responsible for that championship isn't even here anymore. lol.

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              • chris wrote: View Post

                why should he, at this stage? he's been a massive bargain as a late first round pick, it's the first big contract of his career, and we're set to have a fuckload of cap space anyway. if we were pressed cap-wise that might make a bit of sense but we have quite a bit of flexibility.


                i expect him to be better than all five of those guys so it's probably a good deal.
                He "was" a bargain. But now he's a big bet. I love everything Pascal stands for... so now we're all hoping and praying now he can justify that bet.

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                • golden wrote: View Post

                  Good lord.... if Masai allows every Raptor player agent to use the " ______ player on a championship team" line against him in contract negotiations, then we're doomed. Every guy on our roster is going to be overpaid..... and the guy most responsible for that championship isn't even here anymore. lol.
                  What? Are you just being contrarian or intentionally obtuse? You are the one making irrelevant comparisons to disparage the deal. I’m simply pointing out that, compared to his peers, he has as good or a better case fir his deal as anyone.

                  The implication you’re making here is as ridiculous as the player comps you were making earlier.

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                  • golden wrote: View Post

                    He "was" a bargain. But now he's a big bet. I love everything Pascal stands for... so now we're all hoping and praying now he can justify that bet.
                    i guess i disagree that it's a big risk. if he does absolutely nothing to improve on his performance from last year i think the deal is still worth it, in this market. if he improves at all it's gravy

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                    • slaw wrote: View Post

                      What? Are you just being contrarian or intentionally obtuse? You are the one making irrelevant comparisons to disparage the deal. I’m simply pointing out that, compared to his peers, he has as good or a better case fir his deal as anyone.

                      The implication you’re making here is as ridiculous as the player comps you were making earlier.
                      You're suggesting that there should be some type of premium because Pascal is the "2nd best player on a championship team"?

                      1) There is a huge drop-off between Kawhi and Pascal. This needs no explanation.
                      2) It is not a given that you pay a premium to a guy who helped you win a championship. Draymond is a bonafide DPOY, multi-time all-star on 3 championship teams, and he's never been a max player.

                      The team had all the leverage.... except for one thing. Pure speculation, but one scenario could be that Pascal's agent threatened to take the Qualifying Offer and become unrestricted if he didn't get the max. Porzingis apparently talked about doing that before he got traded.

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                      • In the end Raptors are not signing big time free agents. So keeping our internal guys is a must. Raptors are absolutely not getting anybody better, so we have to overpay.
                        Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                        • I think we can trust Masai. Also giving him the max keeps him happy. Theres no telling now that if a player has a breakout allstar season - they could just bolt or demand to leave if he wasn't on a long contract.

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                          • I thought we would wait till offseason but glad we got him locked up long term. No one should really be upset about this. We all wanted pascal for his prime years and now we have that. Whats the diffrence between 140 mil now and maybe 120 mil next summer is he has a bit of a down year, thats assuming no one offers him the max which someone surly would. Masai has to build back some good will around the league after the Derozen trade, Boston fucked themselves with how they did IT and Ainge isn't going to get away from that reputation any time soon. This deal and the Lowry deal send a message not only to our current players but future ones that although Masai has the balls to make tough trades, he will reward our guys and give them the $ they deserve.
                            Good move, I truly believe Masai is weighing what his rep will be when the big free agent class of 2021 comes around and both these contracts help immensely.
                            To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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                            • Hello again folks,

                              Well deserved for a guy who’s rapid growth and development is one of the great accomplishment of Masai and this franchise.

                              He is not another Derozan after a decade in the league, still cannot defend and shoot a 22 footer just to save his life.

                              A very good cornerstone to build around. Pascal showed his worth when it really mattered. Yes Draymond Green never tasted the max but could have gotten it if his circumstance is the same as Siakam.

                              Now this a very good motivation for OG and Boucher, both players can dream at this point. Now they have to work their tails off to reach Pascal’s stature.



                              You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

                              When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


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                              • MixxAOR wrote: View Post

                                everybody knew but it was a matter of how much
                                uh, max is max for a given player.

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