Everything Pascal Siakam

[SkywalkerAC]

Siakam and will both be passable shooters next year, they just need that elite shooting around them because they will almost definitely never be knock down shooters (could be wrong about Scottie, so much time to refine). They need to be ‘good enough’, which should equate to incremental improvement on last season.

That’s why Dick is so important as a conduit piece in the rotation. We couldn’t make our small ball lineup pop because we couldn’t truly punish from outside. Now we can bring Gradey and Trent off the bench together and shift completely from big and burly to Death Lineup in an instant with what could be one of the better shooting lineups out there:

Fred
Trent
Dick
OG
Scottie

Assuming we run it back of course, which I think we should at this point. It’s just so easy to be deep AND talented from this starting point. If we bring back Fred we’re already guard (and shooting) rich (counting on a couple rookies to perform but that’s what we want too) before even thinking about adding additional free agents or trading (eg Boucher for a guard).

[MixxAOR]

They swallowed their pride and learned from their mistake. That’s a positive.

We can now officially bury the “Raptors are elite at teaching shooting” myth.

They can't develop other parts of the game too.

[DanH]

Siakam and will both be passable shooters next year, they just need that elite shooting around them because they will almost definitely never be knock down shooters (could be wrong about Scottie, so much time to refine). They need to be ‘good enough’, which should equate to incremental improvement on last season.

That’s why Dick is so important as a conduit piece in the rotation. We couldn’t make our small ball lineup pop because we couldn’t truly punish from outside. Now we can bring Gradey and Trent off the bench together and shift completely from big and burly to Death Lineup in an instant with what could be one of the better shooting lineups out there:

Fred
Trent
Dick
OG
Scottie

Assuming we run it back of course, which I think we should at this point. It’s just so easy to be deep AND talented from this starting point. If we bring back Fred we’re already guard (and shooting) rich (counting on a couple rookies to perform but that’s what we want too) before even thinking about adding additional free agents or trading (eg Boucher for a guard).

I for one would love if they did not go back to the small ball lineups unless they have good reason to. The extra shooting has never actually helped the offence function better. Play a real C.

We've also got three starters playing in that lineup, ideally you buy rest for more of the starters at once. Really only need one of the starting shooters out there with bench lineups, if even that many (if Otto is there or Boucher is traded for more shooting depth or room to use the MLE on shooting depth).

[WJF]

I for one would love if they did not go back to the small ball lineups unless they have good reason to. The extra shooting has never actually helped the offence function better. Play a real C.

We've also got three starters playing in that lineup, ideally you buy rest for more of the starters at once. Really only need one of the starting shooters out there with bench lineups, if even that many (if Otto is there or Boucher is traded for more shooting depth or room to use the MLE on shooting depth).

Small ball for short stretches is fine, it's when the team tried to do it vs. teams that were able to play big and guard our guys that it was frustrating. The Poeltl addition helped with this. Hopefully some added development from Koloko will help with this as well.

[Primer]

So if we offer Pascal a max extension, what are the odds he accepts it?

Is he gonna force us wait until next offseason so he has one more chance at a supermax?

That would truly be the worst outcome possible.

[planetmars]

So if we offer Pascal a max extension, what are the odds he accepts it?

Is he gonna force us wait until next offseason so he has one more chance at a supermax?

That would truly be the worst outcome possible.

There is a gap between 30% and 35%. If he makes all-nba he's entitled to 35%. But could even get 31 or 32%. That's the haggle part. I'm not sure if the Raptors would be fixated on only giving him the 30% max. Or if Pascal is willing to come down. That's part of their negotiation.

Hayes seems to think Pascal will only resign here and thus kiboshed his trade value. If the super max amount wasn't the sticking point then maybe we can get that deal done quicker. If we do extend him for at least 4 years, then we can't trade him for 6 months.

But I would assume that Pascal would prefer to wait. That just seems reasonable. This will likely be his last big contract. He'll be 34/35 at the end of it.

[Primer]

There is a gap between 30% and 35%. If he makes all-nba he's entitled to 35%. But could even get 31 or 32%. That's the haggle part. I'm not sure if the Raptors would be fixated on only giving him the 30% max. Or if Pascal is willing to come down. That's part of their negotiation.

Hayes seems to think Pascal will only resign here and thus kiboshed his trade value. If the super max amount wasn't the sticking point then maybe we can get that deal done quicker. If we do extend him for at least 4 years, then we can't trade him for 6 months.

But I would assume that Pascal would prefer to wait. That just seems reasonable. This will likely be his last big contract. He'll be 34/35 at the end of it.

If we extend him now we can trade him in 6 months. If he forces us to wait until next offseason we wouldn't be able to deal him until 2 more seasons from now.

Scottie will forever have stunted development while Pascal goes YOLO trying to get a supermax. Worst case scenario. If Pascal only wants a supermax I deal him now no matter what.

Is he loyal to the Raptors or just greedy for a supermax? If he's loyal he will take a max deal now.

[Yuri Gagarin]

Yes try to extend him on our terms. If he wants too much trade him for whatever. Its not good practice to wait until FA cmon mgmt enough

[DanH]

If we extend him now we can trade him in 6 months. If he forces us to wait until next offseason we wouldn't be able to deal him until 2 more seasons from now.

Scottie will forever have stunted development while Pascal goes YOLO trying to get a supermax. Worst case scenario. If Pascal only wants a supermax I deal him now no matter what.

Is he loyal to the Raptors or just greedy for a supermax? If he's loyal he will take a max deal now.

I mean, technically it can be both.

Definitely will be interesting to see whether he signs the max offer we'll undoubtedly make this summer.

But yeah, keep in mind the supermax is anywhere between 30-35%. Like, if they agree they want to give him 31-32% if he qualifies next summer, is that a large enough difference to kibosh the whole thing? I doubt it. But the full 35% is definitely onerous and they'll want to avoid that.

The other thing is a regular extension is only 4 tacked on years. If he wants to cash out for 5 years, he needs to wait for next summer. If he had hit the supermax terms already, he'd be able to sign a 5 year extension now, even if he didn't take the >30% salary, but alas.

In any case, if he wants to stay here, if he wants the 5 years, or if he wants something over 30%, those all mean he stays even if he goes to FA next summer. So nothing too scary about an extension not getting done.

[Primer]

I mean, technically it can be both.

Definitely will be interesting to see whether he signs the max offer we'll undoubtedly make this summer.

But yeah, keep in mind the supermax is anywhere between 30-35%. Like, if they agree they want to give him 31-32% if he qualifies next summer, is that a large enough difference to kibosh the whole thing? I doubt it. But the full 35% is definitely onerous and they'll want to avoid that.

The other thing is a regular extension is only 4 tacked on years. If he wants to cash out for 5 years, he needs to wait for next summer. If he had hit the supermax terms already, he'd be able to sign a 5 year extension now, even if he didn't take the >30% salary, but alas.

In any case, if he wants to stay here, if he wants the 5 years, or if he wants something over 30%, those all mean he stays even if he goes to FA next summer. So nothing too scary about an extension not getting done.

It is scary if you want to trade Pascal.

He will have very little value at the deadline as a guy with no years left who publicly says he won't resign elsewhere.

Pascal will be playing ultra selfish basketball all year trying to get all nba. It will be bad for the team and really bad for Scottie development.

So now Scottie has played 3 seasons where he can't develop into a playmaking PF because Pascal is playing his position and also playing selfish because he wants all nba.

Well we still can't trade Pascal. We need to sign him to a new deal next offseason. We will have to fight him on the cost. Let's say we compromise and it's in between a max and supermax. Now we're signing a 30 year old Pascal to a 5 year humongous contract.

Once he signs that supermax ish deal, we can't trade him again for another 6 months. So we will have to go 4 seasons of Scottie not developing into a playmamkng PF because Pascal is playing his position.

Now after this 4th season, we can finally attempt to trade a now 31 year old Pascal on a supermax ish type deal.

I don't think we'll have many suitors, and I guarantee his value will be similar to what Beal got.

It's a pretty nightmare treadmill scenario in my eyes. We'll end up just like the Wizards.

You're all about asset retention. Well if Pascal forces this he's not really an asset.

[DanH]

Pascal has been playing selfish?

I want to keep a guy like Gary because of asset retention. I want to keep Pascal because it is rare to get an all-NBA calibre player on your team and you should always try to hold onto those guys unless you get an absolute pile of assets in return.

OK, I get it, you want to trade Pascal and him wanting to stay is screwing that up for you. Fine.

[Primer]

Pascal has been playing selfish?

I want to keep a guy like Gary because of asset retention. I want to keep Pascal because it is rare to get an all-NBA calibre player on your team and you should always try to hold onto those guys unless you get an absolute pile of assets in return.

OK, I get it, you want to trade Pascal and him wanting to stay is screwing that up for you. Fine.

I want Scottie to be able to develop into our playmaking PF. Never happening while Pascal is here because that's his role.

Pascal forcing a supermax means we won't be able to deal him for another 2 seasons, thereby wasting Scottie's development.

Pascal playing for all nba is gonna be tons of selfish iso ball. He has to score a ton to get all nba.

[DanH]

I want Scottie to be able to develop into our playmaking PF. Never happening while Pascal is here because that's his role.

Pascal forcing a supermax means we won't be able to deal him for another 2 seasons, thereby wasting Scottie's development.

Pascal playing for all nba is gonna be tons of selfish iso ball. He has to score a ton to get all nba.

Right, and all that depends on your "this can't happen" statement which as far as I can tell has no basis in fact. Like, if we saw some miraculous change in Scottie's deployment and aggression when he was buying Pascal rest (which is exactly what the team was desperate for), I could see the argument. But didn't remotely happen, even though that was a big chunk of his playing time this year, especially when the Raps were running a semi-sane rotation.

Scottie needs to make his leap. If he can't do it in bench minutes, I doubt he'd be doing it in starting lineups regardless of Pascal's presence.

It will happen eventually. If it happens and we see that he's being suppressed in Pascal's minutes, we figure that out. But considering how successful Pascal was playing beside Kawhi, I doubt it will be an issue. Pascal is an excellent #2 and I don't see why that would get in the way of Scottie's path to a #1 option, which is clearly what they want.

The iso ball was a team concept. Maybe that continues under Darko but I doubt it, and either way it won't be a Pascal call.

[Primer]

Right, and all that depends on your "this can't happen" statement which as far as I can tell has no basis in fact. Like, if we saw some miraculous change in Scottie's deployment and aggression when he was buying Pascal rest (which is exactly what the team was desperate for), I could see the argument. But didn't remotely happen, even though that was a big chunk of his playing time this year, especially when the Raps were running a semi-sane rotation.

Scottie needs to make his leap. If he can't do it in bench minutes, I doubt he'd be doing it in starting lineups regardless of Pascal's presence.

It will happen eventually. If it happens and we see that he's being suppressed in Pascal's minutes, we figure that out. But considering how successful Pascal was playing beside Kawhi, I doubt it will be an issue. Pascal is an excellent #2 and I don't see why that would get in the way of Scottie's path to a #1 option, which is clearly what they want.

The iso ball was a team concept. Maybe that continues under Darko but I doubt it, and either way it won't be a Pascal call.

Scottie isn't Kawhi, he's nothing like Kawhi. Kawhi and Pascal fit great together.

[Kagemusha]

Scottie isn't Kawhi, he's nothing like Kawhi. Kawhi and Pascal fit great together.

Scottie is a mini Jokic.
What we need is a Murray type player to complement him.
Between him and Pascal , you take Scottie. Young and a playmaking big.

Hate selfish players, and if the rumours are true that Pascal is being selfish that's a shame.
These guys are already millionaires, what more do they want.