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  • lewro wrote: View Post
    Are we worried about vuc and nurkic? I think we should be worried about deandre, LMA, draymond, tt, Blake, lebron, love. Those are our rivals. Couldn't we just live with Sully vs nurkic twice a yr? The league's only trending more toward giles types next yr and into the future.
    It's also not just about defending your own position/stopping the other team's post player. JV shifting to help a teammate is s-l-o-w. JV shifting to help the helper almost never happens. JV does not block shots with any regularity (he's not feared by opponents). He's not a "great post defender".

    He's a good-to-excellent post offensive player with a decent-to-good mid-range game. Unfortunately, neither of those skills seem to be what Toronto is lacking right now. They're getting killed on the boards and on penetration (either right to the rim or for kickouts). The O is not the problem. This is a very good team that is lacking in one particular area that could maybe take them over the top. I don't have the answer, but I'm fairly certain JV is not it.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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    • lewro wrote: View Post
      Are we worried about vuc and nurkic? I think we should be worried about deandre, LMA, draymond, tt, Blake, lebron, love. Those are our rivals. Couldn't we just live with Sully vs nurkic twice a yr? The league's only trending more toward giles types next yr and into the future.
      I made no claims about any of that. Someone said he was a poor post defender, he is actually a very good post defender. The value of that is certainly debatable.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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      • DanH wrote: View Post
        I made no claims about any of that. Someone said he was a poor post defender, he is actually a very good post defender. The value of that is certainly debatable.
        One isolated stat does not a 'very good post defender' make. Does he pass your eye test?
        Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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        • jimmie wrote: View Post
          One isolated stat does not a 'very good post defender' make. Does he pass your eye test?
          Youre thinking of help defense, which yes jv lacks but it doesn't help that carroll has been an absolute slug, and derozan is, well, derozan.
          It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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          • jimmie wrote: View Post
            One isolated stat does not a 'very good post defender' make. Does he pass your eye test?
            Uh, yes? He makes stops in the post at a very high rate - guys rarely score on him there. His defensive deficiencies are in other areas.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • jimmie wrote: View Post
              It's also not just about defending your own position/stopping the other team's post player. JV shifting to help a teammate is s-l-o-w. JV shifting to help the helper almost never happens. JV does not block shots with any regularity (he's not feared by opponents). He's not a "great post defender".

              He's a good-to-excellent post offensive player with a decent-to-good mid-range game. Unfortunately, neither of those skills seem to be what Toronto is lacking right now. They're getting killed on the boards and on penetration (either right to the rim or for kickouts). The O is not the problem. This is a very good team that is lacking in one particular area that could maybe take them over the top. I don't have the answer, but I'm fairly certain JV is not it.
              The "fear" part is important. You can see guys think twice about how to attack bebe. With jv they know he just follows principle of verticality so he won't get a foul called. To the opponent it's essentially a coach holding a blocking pad up in practice.
              No, I can't prove any of this.

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              • DanH wrote: View Post
                I made no claims about any of that. Someone said he was a poor post defender, he is actually a very good post defender. The value of that is certainly debatable.
                I don't care to debate if jv is a good post defender. How to matchup with the forwards on the contenders is the point.

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                • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                  Youre thinking of help defense, which yes jv lacks but it doesn't help that carroll has been an absolute slug, and derozan is, well, derozan.
                  I accidentally clicked like on your post. Carroll has not been a slug. He's actually been pretty good lately.
                  If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                  • jimmie wrote: View Post
                    Eye test. He gets worked in the post. He's not a great defender by any stretch. If we want to value JV for his offense, we have to admit his flaws on defense.
                    "Eye test" always seems to make players we like seem better and players we don't seem worse.
                    If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                    • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                      I accidentally clicked like on your post. Carroll has not been a slug. He's actually been pretty good lately.
                      He's been getting blown by on the perimeter, more often than we'd like though, which puts Jonas in a tough position.

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                      • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                        I accidentally clicked like on your post. Carroll has not been a slug. He's actually been pretty good lately.
                        Really? I think he's been awful defensively other than that 2 game stretch last week. We thought he was "back", but to me he's back to crap. Sure he hits spot up 3s, didn't know we had to pay 15 million for that..he loses every loose ball battle..the defense is terrible. Take a look at the hustle of a much older Richard Jefferson last night.
                        It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                        • DanH wrote: View Post
                          Uh, yes? He makes stops in the post at a very high rate - guys rarely score on him there. His defensive deficiencies are in other areas.
                          Agreed. He is a good post defender, but a terrible P&R defender.

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                          • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                            He's been getting blown by on the perimeter, more often than we'd like though, which puts Jonas in a tough position.
                            I've been a big supporter of Jonas, but even then, he needs to show more effort deterring shots. The half-hearted contests and lazy fouls need to stop.

                            KeonClark wrote: View Post
                            Really? I think he's been awful defensively other than that 2 game stretch last week. We thought he was "back", but to me he's back to crap. Sure he hits spot up 3s, didn't know we had to pay 15 million for that..he loses every loose ball battle..the defense is terrible. Take a look at the hustle of a much older Richard Jefferson last night.
                            He'll never be "back". Those knee injuries messed him up real good.

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                            • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                              "Eye test" always seems to make players we like seem better and players we don't seem worse.
                              Agreed. So do stats without context. And for the record, I like JV. Just not on the Raptors anymore; I had hoped he would improve on D, as "bigs always take longer" (which I think is a lot of nonsense), but I haven't seen it.
                              Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                              • A.I wrote: View Post
                                Agreed. He is a good post defender, but a terrible P&R defender.
                                Yeah, and basically, if you want to defend the guy based solely on how he does against his own check every night through one single metric, and forget about the rest of 'team defense', then sure, that one stat looks fine. Watching him D up on a nightly basis gives you infinitely more insight into how he actually defends within the team concept.
                                Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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