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  • A.I wrote: View Post
    Agreed. He is a good post defender, but a terrible P&R defender.
    He's good at rebounding and sometimes the more spry guys like bebe are more injury prone.
    The whole debate just really boils down to system, fit and opponent matchup to me.
    Every player has pros and cons.

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    • jimmie wrote: View Post
      Yeah, and basically, if you want to defend the guy based solely on how he does against his own check every night through one single metric, and forget about the rest of 'team defense', then sure, that one stat looks fine. Watching him D up on a nightly basis gives you infinitely more insight into how he actually defends within the team concept.
      Well in terms of the team defense, he is a bad P&R defender, no denying that, but to be fair, the team overall really haven't been good defensively this season, you can't put the whole blame on JV.

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      • People are making the wrong argument with JV. If you want to argue he's not good enough, that's just wrong. He's a very good player. If you want to make the argument that on offense his role is too limited for his skillset and defensively he does not fit the coach's gameplan well, that is a much more reasonable argument to make.

        jimmie wrote: View Post
        JV isn't a "great post defender".
        Actually you're wrong here. This is about the only aspect of defense he is actually good at.

        Unfortunately it's the least important, since hardly any teams rely on post offense for their baskets (and basically none of the top teams do). What's more important pick and roll defense, the ability to help provide coverage on the perimeter with your mobility and help defense; three things that JV is not good at, at all.
        Last edited by Lupe; Wed Dec 7th, 2016, 07:57 AM.

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        • In my opinion it's similar to how James Johnson was a very good on the ball defender. But help defense/help the helper you tend to see challenges.

          In Jj's case it was brain freezes or takin unnecessary risks. JV is different.
          To an extent I think his teammates and the system could help JV out a fair bit with stronger perimeter defense and icing the pick and roll better.

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          • Just to put it out there. There are very few true bigs in the league who are good at defending the PnR. There's a reason why it's such a popular play all over the league; it's bloody hard to defend for a big. You could probably count on two hands the bigs that are actually good at PnR defense.
            "Stay steamy"

            - Kobe

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            • hotfuzz wrote: View Post
              Just to put it out there. There are very few true bigs in the league who are good at defending the PnR. There's a reason why it's such a popular play all over the league; it's bloody hard to defend for a big. You could probably count on two hands the bigs that are actually good at PnR defense.
              You could say the same about perimeter defense. No one is keeping most of today's guards in front of them on a consistent basis. The rule changes a while back to disallow hand-checks etc. made it almost impossible for a guy like Gary Payton to exist today. It makes the need for an anchor in the frontcourt that much more important, along with the trend toward floor-spacing, long, athletic bigs.
              Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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              • jimmie wrote: View Post
                You could say the same about perimeter defense. No one is keeping most of today's guards in front of them on a consistent basis. The rule changes a while back to disallow hand-checks etc. made it almost impossible for a guy like Gary Payton to exist today. It makes the need for an anchor in the frontcourt that much more important, along with the trend toward floor-spacing, long, athletic bigs.
                Yep I remember reading that the keep-in-front rate for PGs is like under 40%. It's not just our guys who get beat off the dribble, it's normal without the ability to hand check.

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                • Lupe wrote: View Post
                  Yep I remember reading that the keep-in-front rate for PGs is like under 40%. It's not just our guys who get beat off the dribble, it's normal without the ability to hand check.
                  There was also a stat last year (or the year before? Can't recall) that showed that the Raps had one of the worst keep-in-front percentages in the league and by far the most active help from the bigs. The point that perimeter defence is hard is true - but so is the point that the Raps are worse than most at it.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • DanH wrote: View Post
                    There was also a stat last year (or the year before? Can't recall) that showed that the Raps had one of the worst keep-in-front percentages in the league and by far the most active help from the bigs. The point that perimeter defence is hard is true - but so is the point that the Raps are worse than most at it.
                    Thus the Delon and Norman draft picks I assume?

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                    • DanH wrote: View Post
                      There was also a stat last year (or the year before? Can't recall) that showed that the Raps had one of the worst keep-in-front percentages in the league and by far the most active help from the bigs. The point that perimeter defence is hard is true - but so is the point that the Raps are worse than most at it.
                      Do you know where we are this season compared to other teams? I understand you can't recall when we were worst than most of the other teams, but i'm curious to see if it's still the case or are we just assuming that we are worst than most.

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                      • DanH wrote: View Post
                        There was also a stat last year (or the year before? Can't recall) that showed that the Raps had one of the worst keep-in-front percentages in the league and by far the most active help from the bigs. The point that perimeter defence is hard is true - but so is the point that the Raps are worse than most at it.
                        That stat was from 2014-15 when we were one of the worst defensive teams in the league with Lou and GV getting huge minutes.

                        A recent Vantage Sports writer tweeted out that the Raptors rank 30th in Keep In Front percentage.
                        https://medium.com/@FanJam/analyzing...479#.2bhedrw13 (From Apr 2015)

                        Last year I know we were 1st in Help Keep-In Front % early in the season (through November) but I can't find the stats for the whole year. You generally have to pay for that data so you'll only get access to it if someone with access writes about it. http://www1.vantagesports.com/Articl...wX6SEAACAAY_EU

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                        • DanH wrote: View Post
                          There was also a stat last year (or the year before? Can't recall) that showed that the Raps had one of the worst keep-in-front percentages in the league and by far the most active help from the bigs. The point that perimeter defence is hard is true - but so is the point that the Raps are worse than most at it.
                          It was the year before. IIRC, it came from a Vantage article. The Vasquez, Lou, DD, KL, TRoss( playing with bad ankles) group were horrific. I remember posting at the deadline about dumping Steamer and picking up some DLeaguer who couldn't shoot, but could perimeter defend.
                          If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                          • would it be a stretch to say that if the raptors don't find a better fit for JV's role, he could go the way of the likes of greg monroe? who went from a pretty solid starting center to being benched and barely playing anymore in milwaukee, just due to clash in style of play.

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                            • iblastoff wrote: View Post
                              would it be a stretch to say that if the raptors don't find a better fit for JV's role, he could go the way of the likes of greg monroe? who went from a pretty solid starting center to being benched and barely playing anymore in milwaukee, just due to clash in style of play.
                              I'd say it would be a long stretch. JV is playing for the 2nd seed in the East, and this team has enjoyed huge success with JV as the starting C for the last few years. Monroe in Milwaukee is not the same.

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                              • The odd thing is that JV , to me at least, looked much more mobile (and effective) late last season and the playoffs. This started around the same time he supposedly changed his diet.
                                If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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