tDotted wrote:
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tDotted wrote: View PostI.e.
they're not.
Favors may be replaced by a 2nd yr player soon on a 6ish seed team. There's contracts involved but it's also about fit next to a defensive centre. Both players have a higher offensive responsibility in part bc they play with defensive centers. Jv is the opposite. He is an average defensive centre that plays with very offensive, allstar guards. His role is more limited and subservient. He has allstar potential like those players but he won't achieve it unless his role is increased.
We could replace his rebounding and screens with a better defender like bogut. That's not a core player. It's a good starting role player. Definitely not a big 3. Maybe Casey will increase his role, maybe not but he definitely has to defend or he will get benched.
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We need better definitions.
A role player is someone who fills a specific role. On this team, JV is a role player. He's there to grab rebounds and occasionally score inside.
In the wider NBA, Jonas is probably viewed as having the potential to be more than a role player.
A core player (to me) is someone who your team is built around and who would most likely not be traded. By this definition JV is not a core player in Toronto.
In the wider NBA he would be a core player on several other teams.
Saying he's a role player on the Raptors doesn't mean he is a role player overall. That's just how we're using him.
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Scraptor wrote: View PostWe need better definitions.
A role player is someone who fills a specific role. On this team, JV is a role player. He's there to grab rebounds and occasionally score inside.
In the wider NBA, Jonas is probably viewed as having the potential to be more than a role player.
A core player (to me) is someone who your team is built around and who would most likely not be traded. By this definition JV is not a core player in Toronto.
In the wider NBA he would be a core player on several other teams.
Saying he's a role player on the Raptors doesn't mean he is a role player overall. That's just how we're using him.
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Scraptor wrote: View PostWe need better definitions.
A role player is someone who fills a specific role. On this team, JV is a role player. He's there to grab rebounds and occasionally score inside.
In the wider NBA, Jonas is probably viewed as having the potential to be more than a role player.
A core player (to me) is someone who your team is built around and who would most likely not be traded. By this definition JV is not a core player in Toronto.
In the wider NBA he would be a core player on several other teams.
Saying he's a role player on the Raptors doesn't mean he is a role player overall. That's just how we're using him.
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DanH wrote: View PostI think for me another issue comes up when limiting the definition to right now. At this moment, he is certainly used as a role player in this system (though a very key one, in my opinion). But in terms of the future of the franchise, and in terms of planning for when Lowry starts to decline, he seems to be irrefutably a key part of the core going forward. There's room for everyone to be right, here.
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DanH wrote: View PostI think for me another issue comes up when limiting the definition to right now. At this moment, he is certainly used as a role player in this system (though a very key one, in my opinion). But in terms of the future of the franchise, and in terms of planning for when Lowry starts to decline, he seems to be irrefutably a key part of the core going forward. There's room for everyone to be right, here.
I'd love for him to remain a Raptor his whole career but what I want to happen and what I think will actually happen are unfortunately two different things.
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Scraptor wrote: View PostI would like to believe that he's a key part of the core in the future. But I think if we end up bringing back Kyle, which to me is a given, Jonas will be the same type of afterthought he's been here to date. I really think the only way he will be used to his capacity is if one of our two star guards is no longer on the team. (I don't think Kyle will decline for at least 2-3 more years yet.)
I'd love for him to remain a Raptor his whole career but what I want to happen and what I think will actually happen are unfortunately two different things.
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lewro wrote: View PostI think that's a very balanced perspective. It's possible that dd was hot and he's actually closed to a low efficiency, volume shooter. In that case, it might be better to use a more balanced approach that incorporates more of jvs efficient scoring. That said, we'd likely be a bad defensive team and not get over the hump.Last edited by KHD; Sat Dec 10, 2016, 01:52 PM.
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KHD wrote: View Postwe'll be a bad defensive team as long as derozan and lowry are the only offensive options, because they're not good defenders to begin with and currently don't have the energy to put in at both ends.
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KHD wrote: View Postwe'll be a bad defensive team as long as derozan and lowry are the only offensive options, because they're not good defenders to begin with and currently don't have the energy to put in at both ends.
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KHD wrote: View Postwe'll be a bad defensive team as long as derozan and lowry are the only offensive options, because they're not good defenders to begin with and currently don't have the energy to put in at both ends.
Golden State won with Curry who is not a good defender (certainly worse than Lowry) and Klay who is just average and only rated above average sometimes because he can guard more than one position sort of.
The guard positions are the least important defensively. Bigs play a much more crucial role in anchoring your defense.Last edited by Lupe; Sat Dec 10, 2016, 02:42 PM.
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Lupe wrote: View PostYet somehow Cleveland just won the title with Kyrie Irving and JR smith in the backcourt and Love at PF... Why? Mobility on defense from the bigs, ability to switch out on shooters and defend the 3PT line and hedge effectively on pick and roll. (Talking strictly defense here).Mamba Mentality
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Lupe wrote: View PostYet somehow Cleveland just won the title with Kyrie Irving and JR smith in the backcourt and Love at PF... Why? Mobility on defense from the bigs, ability to switch out on shooters and defend the 3PT line and hedge effectively on pick and roll. (Talking strictly defense here).
Golden State won with Curry who is not a good defender (certainly worse than Lowry) and Klay who is just average and only rated above average sometimes because he can guard more than one position sort of.
The guard positions are the least important defensively. Bigs play a much more crucial role in anchoring your defense.
I do think tt helps them. He doesn't need the ball but is effective when he gets it and has a lot of defensive impact. We are seeing some of that from bebe.
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