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  • Here is a pretty good breakdown on Scottie Barnes:



    I'm meh on him. He seems to struggle with half court offense and 3pt shooting. With his size and apparent high IQ.. the half court offense thing is puzzling. He should dominate there. He's got great defensive instincts though.

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    • planetmars wrote: View Post
      Here is a pretty good breakdown on Scottie Barnes:



      I'm meh on him. He seems to struggle with half court offense and 3pt shooting. With his size and apparent high IQ.. the half court offense thing is puzzling. He should dominate there. He's got great defensive instincts though.
      Reminds me of a much taller Delon Wright. lol.

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      • The half court thing scares me big time. He has the ball skills a wing player should have, it’s not anything out of the ordinary. It’s not like he is a 5 doing these things.

        Keon Johnson is the player I’m most intrigued by in that 5-10 range. He has a motor and ferocity that isn’t teachable, and he already can finish at two levels (driving and midrange) he just needs to improve his 3. Which is a big hole in his game but possibly could develop that. His D is average to above average. So far he’s my guy in our range.

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        • planetmars wrote: View Post
          Here is a pretty good breakdown on Scottie Barnes:



          I'm meh on him. He seems to struggle with half court offense and 3pt shooting. With his size and apparent high IQ.. the half court offense thing is puzzling. He should dominate there. He's got great defensive instincts though.
          I won't mind having a Ben Simmons type player in our team.
          We have Fred and Flynn as our primary PGs anyway.
          Imagine this kid hitting our open shooters for easy uncontested shots
          while providing excellent defense on the other end.
          How can opponents score against an OG- Pascal- Barnes trio.

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          • planetmars wrote: View Post
            Here is a pretty good breakdown on Scottie Barnes:



            I'm meh on him. He seems to struggle with half court offense and 3pt shooting. With his size and apparent high IQ.. the half court offense thing is puzzling. He should dominate there. He's got great defensive instincts though.
            Like an elite-passing, open-court version of OG. Which is...pretty darn intriguing. He does fit very well with our defense-into-transition-offense, maybe less so with our drive-and-kick-and-shoot half court O.

            But his 3-ball doesn't look that bad either. Certainly better than Ben Simmons'.
            Last edited by SkywalkerAC; Tue Apr 6, 2021, 10:57 AM.

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            • He would be a top 3 pick if he could shoot. Maybe he can be taught that. Wonder if he's a hard worker / gym rat?

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              • planetmars wrote: View Post
                He would be a top 3 pick if he could shoot. Maybe he can be taught that. Wonder if he's a hard worker / gym rat?
                That is what you hope with these guys. Ben Simmons still can't shoot, but he is great at everything else.

                Unless we play Barnes at PG and surround him with the shooters we have. Barnes/GTJ/OG/Pascal/???

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                • Kagemusha wrote: View Post

                  I won't mind having a Ben Simmons type player in our team.
                  We have Fred and Flynn as our primary PGs anyway.
                  Imagine this kid hitting our open shooters for easy uncontested shots
                  while providing excellent defense on the other end.
                  How can opponents score against an OG- Pascal- Barnes trio.
                  I don't think he'd fit well next to Flynn. Flynn needs to initiate an offense, and not be the off guard. Fred is better as the off guard so that can work for sure.

                  Ben Simmons is fierce around the rim though. So he makes up for his inability to space the floor by being able to drive hard to the rim for a dunk/layup. You can play off of Barnes, and basically let him try and create his own shot. He will likely fail unless he can develop his scoring / shooting instincts.

                  The one thing I really like about Barnes though is his ability to do a cross court pass. That's a lot easier said then done.

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                  • grindhouse wrote: View Post

                    You still got Suggs #2 on your list. He is getting shut down.

                    so far green and Mobley is on my list. I like Keon but I personally am not looking for a undersized 2 guard.
                    Yes. I still got Suggs #2 on my list.

                    6'5 is undersized? 6'5 is the perfect size for a SG.
                    Mamba Mentality

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                    • planetmars wrote: View Post

                      I don't think he'd fit well next to Flynn. Flynn needs to initiate an offense, and not be the off guard. Fred is better as the off guard so that can work for sure.

                      Ben Simmons is fierce around the rim though. So he makes up for his inability to space the floor by being able to drive hard to the rim for a dunk/layup. You can play off of Barnes, and basically let him try and create his own shot. He will likely fail unless he can develop his scoring / shooting instincts.

                      The one thing I really like about Barnes though is his ability to do a cross court pass. That's a lot easier said then done.
                      There's been a bit of an uptick with taller playmakers as primary initiators, starting with Lebron and now Giannis, Simmons, Luka, Ball Bros, etc... Of course, they all will get compared to Magic at some point. You see how difficult it is for Fred to make the lob pass to the roll man? Or finding the baseline cutter? LaMelo Ball makes those play in his sleep.... because he has one more option to pass over the defender, not just around.

                      The other question with Barnes would be the fit. Wouldn't he be duplicating a lot of the point-forward stuff that Pascal is doing? Pascal is above 21% AST rate, which is already pretty decent for a forward as a playmaker. And with Barnes & Pascal you'd have 2 non-shooters, which would kill the spacing. We would need an elite stretch 5.

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                      • golden wrote: View Post

                        The other question with Barnes would be the fit. Wouldn't he be duplicating a lot of the point-forward stuff that Pascal is doing? Pascal is above 21% AST rate, which is already pretty decent for a forward as a playmaker. And with Barnes & Pascal you'd have 2 non-shooters, which would kill the spacing. We would need an elite stretch 5.
                        Yeah for sure.. and that's the problem with a good team picking up a lottery level talent. I personally always go with BPA and then adjust the roster afterwards. Maybe it makes sense to pick up Barnes because he's the best prospect at our draft slot, and then trade Pascal for a better big.

                        In terms of fit, Mobley makes the most sense since we need a 5. Cade too is a big point guard like Doncic and Lebron. So can he thrive in that role with Fred and Pascal here? He's the no brainer #1 pick. And if we some how get the #1 pick, I'm not bypassing Cade just to get a guy that fits our current roster in Mobley.

                        I really like Suggs, but he's a SG. We have some combo of Fred or Trent in that spot already. It would be a waste to have Suggs come off the bench.

                        If we get a big wing like Green or Kubinga, then where is OG going?

                        So basically this lottery talent we get is most likely going to replace one of our core players, unless we get Mobley.. or we drop far enough back in the lottery that we end up with a bench player (at least for next season).

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                        • planetmars wrote: View Post

                          Yeah for sure.. and that's the problem with a good team picking up a lottery level talent. I personally always go with BPA and then adjust the roster afterwards. Maybe it makes sense to pick up Barnes because he's the best prospect at our draft slot, and then trade Pascal for a better big.

                          In terms of fit, Mobley makes the most sense since we need a 5. Cade too is a big point guard like Doncic and Lebron. So can he thrive in that role with Fred and Pascal here? He's the no brainer #1 pick. And if we some how get the #1 pick, I'm not bypassing Cade just to get a guy that fits our current roster in Mobley.

                          I really like Suggs, but he's a SG. We have some combo of Fred or Trent in that spot already. It would be a waste to have Suggs come off the bench.

                          If we get a big wing like Green or Kubinga, then where is OG going?

                          So basically this lottery talent we get is most likely going to replace one of our core players, unless we get Mobley.. or we drop far enough back in the lottery that we end up with a bench player (at least for next season).
                          That is something you address after you draft the best player available. Its never a good idea to draft for fit. If whoever we draft becomes good enough to be part of the future core and staple in the starting lineup then you have to make some moves.

                          If you get a guard and he becomes better than Fred or GTJ, you move one of them to upgrade at another position or fill the bench with higher quality players. My preference would be move Fred over GTJ due to age and how bright a future GTJ has I believe.

                          If you draft a player who can play the SF/PF spot, then you look at what you can get for OG or Pascal. Preference here would be Pascal because I think OG can become a game changing defender as he gets older and also starts to develop his offensive game more, he can be a better two way player than Pascal is currently.

                          The player we draft will fit the timeline with GTJ and OG more than Pascal and Fred who are both 27 already. In a few years, those 2 will start falling out of their primes while GTJ, OG and rookie will start entering or be in the peak of their prime.

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                          • A.I wrote: View Post

                            That is something you address after you draft the best player available. Its never a good idea to draft for fit. If whoever we draft becomes good enough to be part of the future core and staple in the starting lineup then you have to make some moves.

                            If you get a guard and he becomes better than Fred or GTJ, you move one of them to upgrade at another position or fill the bench with higher quality players. My preference would be move Fred over GTJ due to age and how bright a future GTJ has I believe.

                            If you draft a player who can play the SF/PF spot, then you look at what you can get for OG or Pascal. Preference here would be Pascal because I think OG can become a game changing defender as he gets older and also starts to develop his offensive game more, he can be a better two way player than Pascal is currently.

                            The player we draft will fit the timeline with GTJ and OG more than Pascal and Fred who are both 27 already. In a few years, those 2 will start falling out of their primes while GTJ, OG and rookie will start entering or be in the peak of their prime.
                            I'm totally in agreement with BPA. However sometimes the existing roster, minutes & role definition prevents the rookie from showing his talent. The coach has a big say in that, obviously.

                            For example, suppose BPA is a point guard and we still have Fred and Kyle dominating the ball. That PG may never even get a chance to show what he's capable of, unless Fred and/or Kyle get injured. Isn't that sort of what's happening with Malachi, right now? That kind of happened with OG, the year we had Kawhi and OG took a huge step backwards as a bench player (other factors were also at play). And to a lesser extent with Norm, when Fred took his spot as starting SG out of training camp last season, and didn't get a starting spot back until OG got hurt.... this season. In all of these cases, the duplicated player only got a chance out of necessity. Similar case with Boucher... he would be a sporadic bench player if Marc and Serge returned or maybe we would have just let him go. He's a useful trade asset now.

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                            • golden wrote: View Post

                              I'm totally in agreement with BPA. However sometimes the existing roster, minutes & role definition prevents the rookie from showing his talent. The coach has a big say in that, obviously.

                              For example, suppose BPA is a point guard and we still have Fred and Kyle dominating the ball. That PG may never even get a chance to show what he's capable of, unless Fred and/or Kyle get injured. Isn't that sort of what's happening with Malachi, right now? That kind of happened with OG, the year we had Kawhi and OG took a huge step backwards as a bench player (other factors were also at play). And to a lesser extent with Norm, when Fred took his spot as starting SG out of training camp last season, and didn't get a starting spot back until OG got hurt.... this season. In all of these cases, the duplicated player only got a chance out of necessity. Similar case with Boucher... he would be a sporadic bench player if Marc and Serge returned or maybe we would have just let him go. He's a useful trade asset now.
                              Well you're comparing the 29th pick or undrafted players to high lottery picks. High lottery picks tend to come into a team with the expectations of being part of the future core. If they succeed as a player, it becomes a great pick and if they are a bust, you become disappointed. Undrafted or late first round picks are a bigger gamble and you're happy when they succeed and its not a big deal if they don't.

                              Guys like Flynn or Boucher who are undrafted or late first round, they have to earn minutes. It is also tough for Flynn to get minutes playing behind 2 high quality PGs and for OG to get minutes playing behind a superstar, but OG still got minutes being the main backup SF behind Kawhi. Flynn is starting to earn more minutes currently and I assume will continue to get minutes now even when Fred and Kyle return.

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                              • magoon wrote: View Post

                                Barnes has advanced passing skills, high BBIQ and is already an extremely capable defender, both on- and off-ball. Johnson had basically none of that, he was just an NBA-ready body who could score on college kids.

                                The downside comp for Barnes isn't Stanley Johnson; it's probably Shawn Marion.
                                That's an insanely high downside. Marion was a 4 time all star who played excellent on both ends of the floor. Any player in this draft would be lucky to end up as good as Shawn Marion.

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