Who Should Be Traded?

[TrueTorontoFan]

Any C options out there that everyone feels good about? I think Myles Turner is the only guy that checks off most boxes. The Pacers were looking at Hayward in the off season and ended up not meeting the Celtics price tag. They ended up getting LeVert in the end. Would they have any interest in Norm?

Any other targets?

- Aldridge is probably available but he's looking washed up too and would cost a lot in term of tradable contracts.
- Horford is also available, but his contract sucks.
- Drummond is available but costs a lot in tradeable assets.
- A cheap guy like Willy Hernangomez from the Pelicans might be available for a 2nd rounder. He'd be an upgrade over Baynes
- His brother Juan Hernangomez can't be traded until March and has a more expensive contract, but again might be available for a 2nd rounder and cap ballast (currently with Minnesota).
- Another cheap guy is Isaiah Hartenstein in Denver.
- Vucevic would be a big target. Not sure Orlando would move him or at what price.


If we're looking for a notable big I think we need to wait for free agency and use our mid-level if we bring back Lowry.. or a good chunk of cap space if not.

Here are some free agent centers that could be available:
- Drummond
- Ibaka (would have to opt out)
- Harrell (again would have to opt out)
- Holmes
- Kanter
- McGee
- Dieng
- Zeller
- Theis
- Leonard
- Noel
- Biyombo
- Howard
- Allen (RFA)
- Collins (RFA)
- Tucker
- Looney (PO)
- Birch


Feels like free agency is the way to go, and then to just make due with what we have this year (try more OG at the 5). That way we can keep Norm and possibly Lowry and then just add to them.

Baynes and Len were not good contingency plans.. and I wanted Baynes so I can't really get mad at the front office or it would make me a hypocrite. But yeah he's not very good.

turner is the catch

[S.R.]

Yeah the Raptors don't move anything meaningful for a guy like Drummond. Maybe they take a flier on a guy like that after a buyout or something and he ends up playing as much as Jeremy Lin did. But when was the last time the Raptors made use of a guy who can't shoot? They had RHJ who was effective as far as he goes, and they wouldn't play him in the playoffs under any circumstances. And outside of that, they've stuck to guys who can shoot and defend, at all positions.

Drummond ruining your spacing could be a real problem. Right now, the Norm/Siakam and even Fred resurgences vs the 2-8 start have a lot to do with those guys getting into the paint and to the rim. Norm slices all the way to the basket when the floor is spread 5-out. Put two 7 footers within 6 feet of the rim and that all goes to shit.

[DogeLover1234]

I went and watched a recent Cavs game versus PHX to dig into Drummond a little bit. If the price is right, I'm pretty interested tbh. As far as I can tell hes always been a superior natural talent who underwhelms - which is exactly what I saw. Much like a Wiggins or T.Ross you can tell he could be a consistent force with more effort. That being said, he hasn't exactly been in many situations to succeed, with an environment to get the best out of him. I think on a winning team with veteran leaders he could live up to his potential a little more - provided he buys in. To me this is the question, do you trust your culture enough to bring in that type of guy?

Im pretty sure Cleveland is hard tanking right now, based on the fact that they play two centers a lot and have make Drummond the focal point of the offense. Whats encouraging about his play is that he legitimately is a very good defender and has a couple skills offensively.

Offensively, he slips just about every screen to get a lob or offensive rebounding position. Ideally he sets some hard screens to set up talented guard play and rolls hard to the rim. He is a great option around the rim with great athleticism and length, combined with pretty good hands. When he gets position for a rebound or seals off a defender its game over - dude can clear space. His off ball movement is surprisingly good - it seems like a trend to his game, that he masks low effort with smart positioning and incredible athleticism. This helps when he plays quick against a moving defense, but when he tries to post up he normally turns it over or throws up a brick. Imo the only thing he should do on a post up is pass, either with some off ball action or two hard dribbles into the paint to draw help. His handle is suspect, but hes a surprisingly good passer - this will help when defenses leave him open on the perimeter.

Defensively you notice quickly how well Drummond moves for a guy his size. His footwork is really nice, very efficient and quick. Helps in 2 center lineups because he can legitimately guard small ball 4s. In the pick and roll he plays a really nice game of cat and mouse, disrupting the ball handler while maintaining position to rebound or defend a pass. His length and explosiveness shine in the PnR. Hes an alert defender, with good anticipation. I think he could play alright in an aggressive help system, he has the quickness, length and awareness to contest shooters, protect the paint, switch onto smalls, etc. That being said, I wouldn't go crazy with that, cause if you keep him in the middle, you probably don't have to send as much help and can stick on shooters a bit more. Honestly, his biggest flaw defensively is just lack of effort. He doesn't finish possessions off well, and gives the other teams a ton of free buckets cause he doesn't want to end up on a poster or commit a foul.

Concerns in trading for Drummond: Limited effort - he easily could not buy in and remain untapped potential. If he decides he wants his touches and isn't cool with just being a better Baynes offensively you've got a problem

Shooting - as others have said (and you can see from his shot chart) he has no range, is awful from the stripe, and even around the rim he shoots just about as well as Fred.

I will say, I think if he buys in you have massive upside. Without a true interior force, we have relied on generating a numbers advantage and flying around the court, but still give up a ton of rebounds and leaves shooters wide open. While awful in his current offensive roll, if you condense it he has a foundation to work with, and actually compliment the starters pretty well. The shooting is a bummer, but I don't think he will kill your spacing, if you leave him open its a dunk, and he can actually make a play pretty well when defenses corral guards.

So long as you don't give up a ton, Im for a Drummond trade. He has the most potential of an in season acquisition, still youngish if it works out and if not, hes expiring. We need some top end talent and this is it imo. I would think of it a lot like a Wiggins trade - you're hoping you can get something out of Drummond others haven't long term, and if you can't hes an improvement from Baynes and not around long.

Here are a couple tables from Cleaning the Glass, basically know orange is good and blue is bad (those numbers are percentiles). PSA is points per 100 shots. Feel free to ask what any of the things mean. Notice the offensive table is very uninspiring but the defense and rebounding one is truly elite.

Clipped some highlights from the game, not well edited or anything, but mostly good with some bad. https://streamable.com/dg4179

[Jclaw]

Apparently John Collins should be traded. Not sure what it would take. RFA next year

[Maury]

Apparently John Collins should be traded. Not sure what it would take. RFA next year

He's a pylon on defense. Not interested.

[Rudy Bargnani]

Any C options out there that everyone feels good about? I think Myles Turner is the only guy that checks off most boxes. The Pacers were looking at Hayward in the off season and ended up not meeting the Celtics price tag. They ended up getting LeVert in the end. Would they have any interest in Norm?

Any other targets?

- Aldridge is probably available but he's looking washed up too and would cost a lot in term of tradable contracts.
- Horford is also available, but his contract sucks.
- Drummond is available but costs a lot in tradeable assets.
- A cheap guy like Willy Hernangomez from the Pelicans might be available for a 2nd rounder. He'd be an upgrade over Baynes
- His brother Juan Hernangomez can't be traded until March and has a more expensive contract, but again might be available for a 2nd rounder and cap ballast (currently with Minnesota).
- Another cheap guy is Isaiah Hartenstein in Denver.
- Vucevic would be a big target. Not sure Orlando would move him or at what price.


If we're looking for a notable big I think we need to wait for free agency and use our mid-level if we bring back Lowry.. or a good chunk of cap space if not.

Here are some free agent centers that could be available:
- Drummond
- Ibaka (would have to opt out)
- Harrell (again would have to opt out)
- Holmes
- Kanter
- McGee
- Dieng
- Zeller
- Theis
- Leonard
- Noel
- Biyombo
- Howard
- Allen (RFA)
- Collins (RFA)
- Tucker
- Looney (PO)
- Birch


Feels like free agency is the way to go, and then to just make due with what we have this year (try more OG at the 5). That way we can keep Norm and possibly Lowry and then just add to them.

Baynes and Len were not good contingency plans.. and I wanted Baynes so I can't really get mad at the front office or it would make me a hypocrite. But yeah he's not very good.

Yea I would love Myles Turner on the raps. A legit DPOY candidate that can shoot the 3. The problem is what does it take? Are the raps looking to trade a pick or 2? Do you really trade away Norman Powell knowing Lowry could walk for nothing this summer? If Lowry is gone then FVV, Norm is probably your starting backcourt. Dunno what it would take to get him.

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

My gut feeling that raptors will do nothing, I don't know..I'm not very happy with Masai lately, 2 years straight he S%#t the bag, first with kawli, than Ibaka..so this team is begging for big man and nothing, u got Baynes who is just trash and u got Boucher, who should be playing at the 4 and playing 20 to 25 minites, he makes a lot of mistakes on defensive end, especially when u play good team, so yeah masai are u gonna do anything, we're waiting, show us that magic of 2 years ago and before..

[Yuri Gagarin]

My gut feeling that raptors will do nothing, I don't know..I'm not very happy with Masai lately, 2 years straight he S%#t the bag, first with kawli, than Ibaka..so this team is begging for big man and nothing, u got Baynes who is just trash and u got Boucher, who should be playing at the 4 and playing 20 to 25 minites, he makes a lot of mistakes on defensive end, especially when u play good team, so yeah masai are u gonna do anything, we're waiting, show us that magic of 2 years ago and before..

First with Kawhi? You don’t appreciate championships?

I think we need to make a move and if theres something there masai will make it obviously. Dont you think the offers are probably shit and thats why he hasnt pulled the trigger?

[Yuri Gagarin]

@dodgelover nice scouting report - thanks! 👍🏻

[Yuri Gagarin]

We need to reload. Not rebuild just reload, this year is a right off. Even if we do well playoffs are in tampa fn bay. Who cares about this year? Lowry Norm and whoever. Tank and get back to winning next year.

[inthepaint]

Any C options out there that everyone feels good about? I think Myles Turner is the only guy that checks off most boxes. The Pacers were looking at Hayward in the off season and ended up not meeting the Celtics price tag. They ended up getting LeVert in the end. Would they have any interest in Norm?

Any other targets?

- Aldridge is probably available but he's looking washed up too and would cost a lot in term of tradable contracts.
- Horford is also available, but his contract sucks.
- Drummond is available but costs a lot in tradeable assets.
- A cheap guy like Willy Hernangomez from the Pelicans might be available for a 2nd rounder. He'd be an upgrade over Baynes
- His brother Juan Hernangomez can't be traded until March and has a more expensive contract, but again might be available for a 2nd rounder and cap ballast (currently with Minnesota).
- Another cheap guy is Isaiah Hartenstein in Denver.
- Vucevic would be a big target. Not sure Orlando would move him or at what price.


If we're looking for a notable big I think we need to wait for free agency and use our mid-level if we bring back Lowry.. or a good chunk of cap space if not.

Here are some free agent centers that could be available:
- Drummond
- Ibaka (would have to opt out)
- Harrell (again would have to opt out)
- Holmes
- Kanter
- McGee
- Dieng
- Zeller
- Theis
- Leonard
- Noel
- Biyombo
- Howard
- Allen (RFA)
- Collins (RFA)
- Tucker
- Looney (PO)
- Birch


Feels like free agency is the way to go, and then to just make due with what we have this year (try more OG at the 5). That way we can keep Norm and possibly Lowry and then just add to them.

Baynes and Len were not good contingency plans.. and I wanted Baynes so I can't really get mad at the front office or it would make me a hypocrite. But yeah he's not very good.

The ideal Centre can space the floor with the 3-ball. That's where the game is headed. That's how the games are closed. When do you ever see, "oh it's crunch time now, let's just feed our C in the post and let him 'feast'/dominate there by backing guys in". That doesn't happen anymore, with the sole exception being Embiid and maybe Jokic, but even them alternate going outside for the 3, especially in crunch time when the paint is totally clogged.

Unless you're a defensive savant borderline DPOY like Gobert, Turner or Gasol, your C must shoot the 3, otherwise you're just clogging the lane for your drive n kick wings (in our case Siakam). None of the free agents on this list do that unfortunately (except Serge but he ain't leaving the clips. If we wanted him we shouldn't have let him go to begin with).

So to me this year you either (a) alternate Siakam & boucher at the 5 (backfilling the PF minutes with Yuta/Watson) or (b) Flip Lowry for picks/prospects and use those to go hard after Turner.

If you can't get Turner, use whatever cap space we have to put a big offer to 7'0'' Markennen (RFA) in the offseason, and let Chicago scramble to match it. If you have a frontcout of OG-Siakam-Markannen switching and doubling there ain't no opposing Centre that can come close to "dominating" them inside, you can take that to the bank. And then offensively you got all sorts of versatility with multiple pnr targets/handlers.

[grindhouse]

Any C options out there that everyone feels good about? I think Myles Turner is the only guy that checks off most boxes. The Pacers were looking at Hayward in the off season and ended up not meeting the Celtics price tag. They ended up getting LeVert in the end. Would they have any interest in Norm?

Any other targets?

- Aldridge is probably available but he's looking washed up too and would cost a lot in term of tradable contracts.
- Horford is also available, but his contract sucks.
- Drummond is available but costs a lot in tradeable assets.
- A cheap guy like Willy Hernangomez from the Pelicans might be available for a 2nd rounder. He'd be an upgrade over Baynes
- His brother Juan Hernangomez can't be traded until March and has a more expensive contract, but again might be available for a 2nd rounder and cap ballast (currently with Minnesota).
- Another cheap guy is Isaiah Hartenstein in Denver.
- Vucevic would be a big target. Not sure Orlando would move him or at what price.


If we're looking for a notable big I think we need to wait for free agency and use our mid-level if we bring back Lowry.. or a good chunk of cap space if not.

Here are some free agent centers that could be available:
- Drummond
- Ibaka (would have to opt out)
- Harrell (again would have to opt out)
- Holmes
- Kanter
- McGee
- Dieng
- Zeller
- Theis
- Leonard
- Noel
- Biyombo
- Howard
- Allen (RFA)
- Collins (RFA)
- Tucker
- Looney (PO)
- Birch


Feels like free agency is the way to go, and then to just make due with what we have this year (try more OG at the 5). That way we can keep Norm and possibly Lowry and then just add to them.

Baynes and Len were not good contingency plans.. and I wanted Baynes so I can't really get mad at the front office or it would make me a hypocrite. But yeah he's not very good.

You looking for a Center go find Kaleb Tarczewski aka Zeus he is playing in Europe somewhere.

[grindhouse]

We can retool and it wouldn’t take much.
get me ...
Ben Simmons
kyle Anderson
robert Woodard
kaleb Tarczewski

all play D all can pass all are over 6’7
ben and Kyle can play 1-3 Woodard can play 2-4
Tarczewski is 7’0 Center I think personally he can play 4 as well

all these players are gettable we wouldn’t need to trade Fred OG or siakam

[LJ2]

We can retool and it wouldn’t take much.
get me ...
Ben Simmons
kyle Anderson
robert Woodard
kaleb Tarczewski

all play D all can pass all are over 6’7
ben and Kyle can play 1-3 Woodard can play 2-4
Tarczewski is 7’0 Center I think personally he can play 4 as well

all these players are gettable we wouldn’t need to trade Fred OG or siakam

How are you proposing we add Ben Simmons without sending Lowry, Fred, OG or Siakam out in the trade? They just giving away All Stars now?

[G__Deane]

How are you proposing we add Ben Simmons without sending Lowry, Fred, OG or Siakam out in the trade? They just giving away All Stars now?

He said we wouldn't need to trade Fred OG or Siakam. I assume he has Lowry going out in a Simmons trade.