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  • inthepaint wrote: View Post
    It's only pre-season, but Norm over the last 2 games is 7/10 from 3, 100% FT%, 36 points, and only one turnover in 39 minutes...
    I'd love to see Powell attack the paint more, and not necessarily the rim. Maybe use a floater to punish bigs like Capela for sitting in the lane, waiting to block his lay-ups.

    7/10 from 3 is unsustainable and people will be calling for Powell's head as soon as he regresses to the mean. I've never liked Powell in this off-ball play-finisher role that completely minimizes his dynamic talent. Eric Koreen of The Athletic says "You would like to see more than one assist from a player with Powell’s dynamism" - well, if 100% of Powell's made threes are assisted and those threes account for ~60% of his scoring, then it's pretty obvious that he's not going to get a ton of assists playing the way he is right now.

    Literally all the Raptors have to do to unleash Powell is give him the ball and let him go to work. He needs the ball in his hands to maximize his impact on the game. But instead they're still using him in the same off-ball role where he has been a negative impact player for the last two years.

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    • DerozansSpurs wrote: View Post

      I'd love to see Powell attack the paint more, and not necessarily the rim. Maybe use a floater to punish bigs like Capela for sitting in the lane, waiting to block his lay-ups.

      7/10 from 3 is unsustainable and people will be calling for Powell's head as soon as he regresses to the mean. I've never liked Powell in this off-ball play-finisher role that completely minimizes his dynamic talent. Eric Koreen of The Athletic says "You would like to see more than one assist from a player with Powell’s dynamism" - well, if 100% of Powell's made threes are assisted and those threes account for ~60% of his scoring, then it's pretty obvious that he's not going to get a ton of assists playing the way he is right now.

      Literally all the Raptors have to do to unleash Powell is give him the ball and let him go to work. He needs the ball in his hands to maximize his impact on the game. But instead they're still using him in the same off-ball role where he has been a negative impact player for the last two years.
      Yes, no one in the league will shoot 70% from 3 obviously, the league average is about 36%. Last year Norm shot 40% from deep. If he replicates that which is realistic and attainable, that will space the floor well for him and for others. As for his assists, I think he has the speed and athleticism to collapse the paint on his drives and open up the floor, what he needs is good decision making as quick as his feet, so he can find the open man inside or in the perimeter for the assist.

      In other words, to raise his assists without raising the turnovers, his decision-making needs to catch up with his explosiveness. I think from two years ago to last year there was big growth there, and this year he looks even more polished. But I agree, it's a waste to have a guy with Norm's athleticism and speed just spotting up off-ball. I fell like once he cements his place as a starter and finally has a defined role in the backcourt, he'll have a very impactful year
      2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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      • Why do I kept getting notifications everytime someone post in the Norman Powell thread?
        Mamba Mentality

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        • The Great One wrote: View Post
          Why do I kept getting notifications everytime someone post in the Norman Powell thread?
          Because you've 'subscribed' to the thread. Click on the button at the top of the page and it will stop giving you notifications

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          • Has a huge opportunity this year. He might start playing to the level of his contract and give Masai more flexibility to make something happen.

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            • Preseason looks like Norm & and OG should have plenty of opportunity to establish themselves as 25-30 mpg starters. The other wing guys are not very good.

              I'm most interested in some of the weird lineups, like super small and super big: Kyle/Fred/Norm/OG/Pascal and Kyle/OG/Pascal/Serge/Gasol. Small look for Golden State type lineups and big look for Philly/Lakers.
              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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              • No one attacks like Powell. Since he was a rookie, he shot 40%. There are players who are the best in terms of speed but Norm is different from them. This year, i’ve seen a development from him. Look at his assists, a player like him is what Raptors really need for the upcoming season. He is valuable for the team’s roster and I’m rooting a lot for him. He was a decent player and contributes whenever he’s asked to sub.

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                • magnusss wrote: View Post
                  No one attacks like Powell. Since he was a rookie, he shot 40%. There are players who are the best in terms of speed but Norm is different from them. This year, i’ve seen a development from him. Look at his assists, a player like him is what Raptors really need for the upcoming season. He is valuable for the team’s roster and I’m rooting a lot for him. He was a decent player and contributes whenever he’s asked to sub.
                  I noticed that Norm and Fred have been hitting more F*** You 3's. I think they learned that from Kawhi.

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                  • DerozansSpurs wrote: View Post

                    Literally all the Raptors have to do to unleash Powell is give him the ball and let him go to work. He needs the ball in his hands to maximize his impact on the game. But instead they're still using him in the same off-ball role where he has been a negative impact player for the last two years.
                    I've always wanted to see Powell be utilized as a facilitator. I think he has that in him, and that's when he would be most effective imo. He's not a spot up shooter.

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                    • 33 points tonight, 5 3’s and making 10 mill ish.

                      Do we under appreciate Powell? We talk a lot about getting out from him contract.

                      I talked with a friend today about what a realistic all in move could look like and we threw this out there:

                      Would you trade Powell and a pick for Iguodala? You save a year of his contract...and hopefully you get better this year. But do you? Powell might be a great piece for $10 mill!
                      Thoughts?

                      Edit—I know the math doesn’t work and you’d have to add McCaw to that trade. The point isn’t about the trade it’s about Powell. The narrative has been that he’s a negative asset. Might be time to challenge that.
                      Last edited by Rudy Bargnani; Fri Nov 29th, 2019, 10:15 PM.

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                      • He really turned up the sliders at halftime damn
                        The name's Bond, James Bond.

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                        • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
                          33 points tonight, 5 3’s and making 10 mill ish.

                          Do we under appreciate Powell? We talk a lot about getting out from him contract.

                          I talked with a friend today about what a realistic all in move could look like and we threw this out there:

                          Would you trade Powell and a pick for Iguodala? You save a year of his contract...and hopefully you get better this year. But do you? Powell might be a great piece for $10 mill!
                          Thoughts?

                          Edit—I know the math doesn’t work and you’d have to add McCaw to that trade. The point isn’t about the trade it’s about Powell. The narrative has been that he’s a negative asset. Might be time to challenge that.
                          Good train of thought. I would personally pass on that trade but it's intriguing.

                          I think we start by realizing Powell is not a negative asset/contract though, Demarre Carroll was. When you net all Norm's ups and downs, he's been a borderline starter caliber player on a winning team over the past 3-4 yrs or so (or at minimum a nice 6th to 8th guy that will not shrink in playoffs). All in all he's got an explosive step to the rim, shoots the 3 well and with confidence, defends well most of the time, and is 26 yrs old. Plenty of developing teams would love to have him at the 10M zone.

                          What makes Norm involved in trade talks this year reminds me of the reasons CoJo was:
                          1. They're both good players that actually have an a nice appeal to other teams (as opposed to guys like Carroll, SJ, McCaw or even Pattersont that you can pick up easily in free agency at a discount )
                          2. It's a position of strength on our team (TD II is emerging and we have lots of athletic wings)
                          3. The contract has weight but not too heavy, so you don't have to involve a bunch of players to make it work, and other teams can absorb it easily
                          4. Would probably get more minutes/bigger role on a team not as deep as the Raptors
                          5. In Norm's case in particular, his 10M will go into the 2021 sheet, which presumably we're trying to keep as clean as possible in order to sign a max FA that summer

                          If a trade were to happen though, I don't think we should send picks out. You're not gonna get a Beal or Bog Bogdnovic with just Norm + McCaw & Picks like some people suggest. To me the best route would be bringing expiring "meh" salary (like Andre Roberson or Henson) and picks in (which we can either use it, or flip it in another trade). I think Norm has enough talent to harness that.
                          Last edited by inthepaint; Sat Nov 30th, 2019, 04:41 PM.
                          2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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                          • I pull my hair out the most when watching Norm. He's just frustrating. But that's a typical role player. He's consistently inconsistent. Some days he's completely invisible. Some days he's giving you 20+ points and is all over the court defensively.

                            For me it comes back to that 2021 player option. If we want to keep Fred we probably need to trade Norm so that we can still get a bigger fish in 2021. And Fred has proven to be better than Norm now - no question.

                            I don't think Masai makes a big trade this year though. Most stars are locked up until 2021 at minimum. He's not going to rock the boat I don't think. The 2019 class was really big, so there were lots of moves at the deadline last season. The 2020 class is pathetic so there probably won't be as many.

                            If Norm is traded it will be in the summer. But I think it also depends on how well we do. If we get to the finals (or my god, win it all again).. than Norm may be safe.

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                            • Nice to see a role player have a big game and lead the team to a road W.

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                              • planetmars wrote: View Post
                                I pull my hair out the most when watching Norm. He's just frustrating. But that's a typical role player. He's consistently inconsistent. Some days he's completely invisible. Some days he's giving you 20+ points and is all over the court defensively.

                                For me it comes back to that 2021 player option. If we want to keep Fred we probably need to trade Norm so that we can still get a bigger fish in 2021. And Fred has proven to be better than Norm now - no question.

                                [...]
                                Agree that the 2021 player option plays a part, and if I were to pick one, it'd be Fred too. That said, when you look at the numbers, I wonder how big of a discrepancy that really is:


                                https://www.basketball-reference.com...r_minute::none


                                I know there are caveats on 'per 36' stats, but both Fred & Norm played enough minutes this year to make that not overly skewed. Advanced stats look similar too

                                --Difference in 3pt % is 1%
                                --Difference in points is 1
                                --Difference in STL% is about 1% (Fred Higher)
                                --Difference in BLK% is about 1% (Norm Higher)
                                --Difference in TOV% is 1.6% (12.1 vs 13.7)
                                --Difference in FT % is 2%
                                --In age they're 1 yr apart
                                --Norm's overall 2P% is 12% higher (we tend to focus on Norm's missed bunnies at the rim but Fred gets blocked at the rim a lot too)
                                --Fred is a feisty and smart defender, but Norm is lengthier and more athletic.
                                --Fred is clutch, but Norm doesn't shrink or shy away from shots in playoff situations either
                                --Fred has more assists, but Norm has more rebounds (that's a function of their roles - Fred playing the point and Norm helping on the wing)

                                We tend to think Norm as inconsistent but Fred can be too (he's on a roll now but if you go back to the Philly/Magic series last year it was tough). I think there's a bit of a recency bias when looking at Fred now, because he's been so big on Lowry's absence (and going back to GSW/Bucks series). Ultimately I think both these guys have very good value, either here or for another team. Personally i'd rather keep Fred, but if we move Norm I hope we don't undervalue him.
                                Last edited by inthepaint; Sat Nov 30th, 2019, 03:50 PM.
                                2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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