Everything Off Season

[DanH]

Certainly for defence I would lean exclusively on impact numbers and maybe some hustle stats to evaluate how active a player is. Box score really doesn't capture defence at all.

[Jclaw]

Because the situation is completely different than Kawhi

With Kawhi, ......... - how do you 'sell' Giannis on living in Toronto, if he hasn't spent any time living in the city? If there are no fans in the stands if, and when, the Raptors do return to Toronto, how do you sell him on a city/fanbase that he doesn't get to experience...

He currently lives in Milwaukee. There. That's the sale.

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

Looks like they just picked Davis contract, yikes, will c where this goes. Innocent until proven guilty I guess, but yeah..honestly I dont know about this.

[DanH]

Looks like they just picked Davis contract, yikes, will c where this goes. Innocent until proven guilty I guess, but yeah..honestly I dont know about this.

There's no "picking up" his contract. He is under contract. They have the ability to waive him anytime. And if they do so by tomorrow, they get off his salary, but they can still do so Monday, just having to pay him.

They were never going to rush a decision to save a minimum salary. If they waive him tomorrow it means they gathered enough info to decide that was the right move, if not they could still be gathering info or could have already decided to trade him or could have already decided they will be keeping him. We don't know.

[Demographic Shift]

Do you seriously equate Giannis with Kawhi?

That wasn't the question.
The Hawk said he wouldn't trade OG Annunoby for one year of the Alphabet.
I said I would and asked the Hawk why he wouldn't do it because the last time we trade two guys for one year of Kawhaii Leonard it worked out pretty well.

They are both pretty good .. no ?
.

[Demographic Shift]

Because the situation is completely different than Kawhi

With Kawhi, you had a disgruntled star who wanted out of town, who wasn't a large presence in the community, and had sat out most of the previous season with injury - meaning the team/fans had gotten used to him not being on the court, and it's an easier 'sell' by management that anything you got in return for Kawhi was better than the likely zero return when he walked in free agency.

***OK... but what does being a pillar of the community have to do with trading OG as part of a hypothetical deal to land Giannas in a trade now ??? Poeole leave cities and jobs all the time.


With Giannis, you have the reigning MVP of the league, who's still demonstrating year-over-year improvement. You also have a team that has committed multiple transactions in the off-season to try to tailor their team to address adjustments that are being made by other teams to try to deal with his skillset. The return in any trade for Giannis will dwarf what was given to Kawhi - and likely will require multiple impact players, because Milwaukee fans aren't going to settle for future first round picks as the return - no matter how many. Therefore, the chances of attaining a title are diminished, because the Raptors will have had to ship out a lot of the surrounding pieces for Giannis.

*** Or not... When an all NBA player wants to be traded and forces the hand of the team rarely if ever does equal value go back.. because the risk is the player leaves for nothing in the next year. ***

For at least the start of the 2021 season, the Raptors will be playing home games in Tampa - how do you 'sell' Giannis on living in Toronto, if he hasn't spent any time living in the city? If there are no fans in the stands if, and when, the Raptors do return to Toronto, how do you sell him on a city/fanbase that he doesn't get to experience.

*** If he forces a trade to Toronto, because Milwuakee is not going to do this on their own volition, then he has already thought this through would he not ?

Finally, in January 2021, you will have a new political administration in the US, who has signaled that they will take a much more aggressive action with regards to COVID-19 than the current administration - what that means for sporting and recreation events at this point is unknown - but not hard to imagine that *something* might happen that will impact the season - so the Raptors might not even get a full season of Giannis

**** Not to discount what a new administration in the Great Republic will do or not do it hard to see this as a material factor in this Hypothetical trade

If for whatever reason the Alphabet and his agent were adamant they wanted a trade to the Raptors to happen now or he would walk for nothing at the end of this season and go to Toronto anyway then the hypothetical ask of OG to be included in the deal would be an easy one for the GM I believe.
We did trade Mr. Raptor in Demar and a 9th overall in Poetel and a first for Leonard for what turned out to be a rental.
I can;t see why the current FO would balk at doing it again for a player of the Alphabets caliber.

[DanH]

If for whatever reason the Alphabet and his agent were adamant they wanted a trade to the Raptors to happen now or he would walk for nothing at the end of this season and go to Toronto anyway then the hypothetical ask of OG to be included in the deal would be an easy one for the GM I believe.
We did trade Mr. Raptor in Demar and a 9th overall in Poetel and a first for Leonard for what turned out to be a rental.
I can;t see why the current FO would balk at doing it again for a player of the Alphabets caliber.

What if the ask was just for Stanley Johnson? That's an easy yes.

What if the ask was OG, Pascal, FVV and Lowry? Easy no, right?

So the question becomes one of leverage. What value is keeping Lowry to the team, because that is essentially the impact of doing the trade or not. Does this Raptors team trade OG to keep Lowry? I don't think they do.

[Jclaw]

Interesting point noted in a few places that no (eligible) player has ever turned down a super max offer. They just take it and ask for a trade later. So I guess we can hold of on the "What now?!" posts when the inevitable happens. Or it doesn't but that would be super weird.

[DanH]

Interesting point noted in a few places that no (eligible) player has ever turned down a super max offer. They just take it and ask for a trade later. So I guess we can hold of on the "What now?!" posts when the inevitable happens. Or it doesn't but that would be super weird.

I think that's not true? AD and Kawhi were both supermax eligible and forced their way off their respective teams instead. And I think all the players that have signed it are still with their teams, except Russ, and I don't think he forced his way out so much as OKC instantly regretted giving it to him. There are at least pretty solid rumours around Harden, so there is that. But he seems to be the first real such case.

[Jclaw]

I think that's not true? AD and Kawhi were both supermax eligible and forced their way off their respective teams instead. And I think all the players that have signed it are still with their teams, except Russ, and I don't think he forced his way out so much as OKC instantly regretted giving it to him. There are at least pretty solid rumours around Harden, so there is that. But he seems to be the first real such case.

I stand very much corrected. Apparently Kyrie as well. That’s what you get for reading too far into the comments on Bucks sites . Commence with the “What now?!”s as appropriate.

[NeedTristanThompson]

I think that's not true? AD and Kawhi were both supermax eligible and forced their way off their respective teams instead. And I think all the players that have signed it are still with their teams, except Russ, and I don't think he forced his way out so much as OKC instantly regretted giving it to him. There are at least pretty solid rumours around Harden, so there is that. But he seems to be the first real such case.

WHAT??? https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/i...o-to-join-him/

WHAT

WOW

THIS IS WILD

I THINk we still got a shot at #GIANNIS2021 tho

If anything like

He wins w the lakers + LBJ, then he'll wanna win on his own u kno

And where better than

#MASAICOUNTRY

and w

#KAWHIIIII20211111

[Demographic Shift]

What if the ask was just for Stanley Johnson? That's an easy yes.

What if the ask was OG, Pascal, FVV and Lowry? Easy no, right?

So the question becomes one of leverage. What value is keeping Lowry to the team, because that is essentially the impact of doing the trade or not. Does this Raptors team trade OG to keep Lowry? I don't think they do.

Then you still retain the leverage in the negotiation Dan.
If the ask was for all those guys and Nurses two kids and Masias vacation property then why would the Alphabet want to come ?
So you say no... and wait for him to walk for nothing.

Your arguing for the sake of arguing.
Which is fine.
As long as you know that.

[TomAmnot]

so... do we know what they decided to do with TD?

[DanH]

so... do we know what they decided to do with TD?

No news of him being waived. So he's on the team for now. I suspect all parties proceed as usual until his hearing on the 11th.

[planetmars]

The NBAPA would probably have an issue with the Raptors if they waived him before proven guilty. On a minimum deal but made the all rookie team. Would seem super fishy and intent would have been obvious.

If he is found guilty the NBA will punish him.. Raptors might add to it. I'm not sure if he would be tradeable once found guilty.. but that's the avenue the Raptors will probably try first if they plan to move him. He's a good on the court asset. But sometimes off the court behavior can wipe all that out.

But yeah I think he'll be at camp one way or another. First pre season game is on the 12th and his hearing is on the 11th. So may not play in that preseason game. We'll see what happens.