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  • The Great One wrote: View Post

    Facts.

    Can we talk about how many busts are on that list? Biz, Len, Noel, Okafor, Bender, Poeltl, Bamba, Collins...all drafted in the top 10 lol damn. Meanwhile let's look at the C's drafted in the late 1st round/2nd round: Gobert, Capela, Williams, Robinson, Jokic.
    Calling Jakob, Mo Bamba or Zach Collins "busts" is kind of ridiculous. Jakob is one of the top defensive players in the league by RAPTOR rating, Mo Bamba is a good player and Collins a good player who's had serious injury troubles over the past year. All of them were second-tier draft candidates rather than first-tier sure-things, and all of them are starter-caliber players at worst, and when you're drafting in the mid-lottery, getting a starter-caliber player is a success. Heck, even Nerlens Noel isn't a bust; he's a decent big who works best as a defensive presence off the bench, he's fine.

    And again: I only listed Cs who had measurable NBA careers. There are so many second-round Cs who have never played a single NBA game that I didn't bother to list, because most second-round Cs (and plenty of late-firsts) don't pan out, especially at this point in NBA history where the league demands a certain level of play from a center and most Cs outside the league have never had to do much other than be tall and rebound. You're cherrypicking from an already-cherrypicked list!
    Last edited by magoon; Thu May 13, 2021, 11:41 AM.

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    • DanH wrote: View Post

      Why trade up to 5th? You like Kuminga that much?

      In a draft like this though, trading up to the top 5 will be very difficult, unless the team in the 5th slot really doesn't like Kuminga, who seems like the consensus 5th pick a tier below the top 4 and a tier above the rest, and after whom it is very flat.
      Yeah I'm a big Kuminga fan.
      Mamba Mentality

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      • magoon wrote: View Post

        Calling Jakob, Mo Bamba or Zach Collins "busts" is kind of ridiculous. Jakob is one of the top defensive players in the league by RAPTOR rating, Mo Bamba is a good player and Collins a good player who's had serious injury troubles over the past year. All of them were second-tier draft candidates rather than first-tier sure-things, and all of them are starter-caliber players at worst, and when you're drafting in the mid-lottery, getting a starter-caliber player is a success. Heck, even Nerlens Noel isn't a bust; he's a decent big who works best as a defensive presence off the bench, he's fine.

        And again: I only listed Cs who had measurable NBA careers. There are so many second-round Cs who have never played a single NBA game that I didn't bother to list, because most second-round Cs (and plenty of late-firsts) don't pan out, especially at this point in NBA history where the league demands a certain level of play from a center and most Cs outside the league have never had to do much other than be tall and rebound. You're cherrypicking from an already-cherrypicked list!
        That's what I said. They're all bust. If you're picking in the top 10 the expectation should be is to draft a future all star. At worst a really really good player like a JV or a McCollum or an Eric Gordon.

        Do you think the Raptors are doing this(tanking) just to draft the next Jakob Poeltl or Mo Bamba? would anyone here be happy if they draft the next Mo Bamba 7th overall?
        Mamba Mentality

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        • This draft is a chance to bring in an all-star caliber player.. we had to watch this scummy season. To get a role player / bench guy who's future looks to be a mid-level type of contract would be very sad.

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          • The Great One wrote: View Post

            That's what I said. They're all bust. If you're picking in the top 10 the expectation should be is to draft a future all star. At worst a really really good player like a JV or a McCollum or an Eric Gordon.

            Do you think the Raptors are doing this(tanking) just to draft the next Jakob Poeltl or Mo Bamba? would anyone here be happy if they draft the next Mo Bamba 7th overall?
            most players drafted in the top ten are busts then, by this definition. the list of guards and wings drafted in the top ten who are nowhere close to as good as poeltl or collins is pretty long.

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            • A.I wrote: View Post
              If we get any one of Cade, Green, Suggs or Mobley, I'd call it a major success.

              The likelihood is we draft 7th or 8th, but the chances of drafting in the top 4 or falling to 8th is fairly similar. Just have to hope the ping pong balls falls our way.
              How would you feel about a scenario where we get a top 4 pick, but we don't pick one of those guys?

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              • To get what we're after, you generally have to pick top 3 or find an unexpected cherry later or even in later rounds. But it's a crap shoot and picking at 7, the odds of getting a franchise altering superstar are slim in any given year.

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                • golden wrote: View Post

                  How would you feel about a scenario where we get a top 4 pick, but we don't pick one of those guys?
                  If Masai likes someone outside the top 4 better than what he can get with the pick, I'd be shocked if he didn't trade down. There's too much interest in the top 4 to not profit off that.

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                  • golden wrote: View Post

                    How would you feel about a scenario where we get a top 4 pick, but we don't pick one of those guys?
                    I mean even any of those 4 could turn out to be a bust, we don't know. If Raptors draft someone else, I won't judge until we see what that player can become. The front office and scouting staff know more and have more information than I do.

                    Drafts are always a tough to tell though. You get can end up with a Marcus Smart, who was picked 6th overall and turned out as a decent role player or you can end up with a Kawhi/Giannis who were picked 15th and are superstars.

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                    • The Great One wrote: View Post

                      That's what I said. They're all bust. If you're picking in the top 10 the expectation should be is to draft a future all star. At worst a really really good player like a JV or a McCollum or an Eric Gordon.

                      Do you think the Raptors are doing this(tanking) just to draft the next Jakob Poeltl or Mo Bamba? would anyone here be happy if they draft the next Mo Bamba 7th overall?
                      Mo Bamba might have been an All Star by now if Raps picked him and developed him. Let's not act like Raps are just pulling starter caliber talent out of their asses with late firsts and seconds. They are developing them.

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                      • Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                        • magoon wrote: View Post

                          Calling Jakob, Mo Bamba or Zach Collins "busts" is kind of ridiculous. Jakob is one of the top defensive players in the league by RAPTOR rating, Mo Bamba is a good player and Collins a good player who's had serious injury troubles over the past year. All of them were second-tier draft candidates rather than first-tier sure-things, and all of them are starter-caliber players at worst, and when you're drafting in the mid-lottery, getting a starter-caliber player is a success. Heck, even Nerlens Noel isn't a bust; he's a decent big who works best as a defensive presence off the bench, he's fine.

                          And again: I only listed Cs who had measurable NBA careers. There are so many second-round Cs who have never played a single NBA game that I didn't bother to list, because most second-round Cs (and plenty of late-firsts) don't pan out, especially at this point in NBA history where the league demands a certain level of play from a center and most Cs outside the league have never had to do much other than be tall and rebound. You're cherrypicking from an already-cherrypicked list!
                          yeah none of those players are busts.... and Jakob is literally flirting with all nba defence this year lol

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                          • The Great One wrote: View Post

                            Yeah I'm a big Kuminga fan.
                            kuminga is a bust or boom pick but I would take him over scottie barnes. he is a slightly less athletic jaylen brown.

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                            • magoon wrote: View Post

                              If Masai likes someone outside the top 4 better than what he can get with the pick, I'd be shocked if he didn't trade down. There's too much interest in the top 4 to not profit off that.
                              i just think there will be not a ton of good trade partners. Like to trade the top 4 for lets say myles turner is a bad idea... and to make most trades work you would need to take on salary and give salary up so who are you giving up within that and who are you taking back. the only partner that is realistic is orlando depending on where their two picks end up. trading back into the teens is silly in my opinion. If you stay within the top 10 you are fine but again few options of that

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                              • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

                                i just think there will be not a ton of good trade partners. Like to trade the top 4 for lets say myles turner is a bad idea... and to make most trades work you would need to take on salary and give salary up so who are you giving up within that and who are you taking back. the only partner that is realistic is orlando depending on where their two picks end up. trading back into the teens is silly in my opinion. If you stay within the top 10 you are fine but again few options of that
                                If Masai likes a non-top-4 player and wants to trade down, he can potentially trade with Orlando (who if we get a top 4 will most likely be bumped to 5) for their two lottery picks. Or with Golden State for #6 and #17. Or with other teams for a mid-lottery pick and a future first or two (which is the same way Dallas traded up to get Luka).

                                If they have a specific player in mind, two picks > one pick.

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